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We need a 15th topic

Rider on Green Line:
Well, it's like this – today even the well of inside joke commentary on about 12 or 14 different topics is dry.

On top of that I'm in the weeds at the day job.

Oh, and I'm having a low grade existential crisis.

There you have it.



I'd like to discuss the difference between *stan and *bad. Go.

hmmm . . . always sympathetic when angst sets in . . . but we're in a season when the Sox have had only 11 Sunday-through-Thursday wins (ie, wins on days before Soxaholic posts) . . . so it's hard to do without the strip on a sunny Monday. How about that Sisyphus-is-joyful-as-he-rolls-the=rock-upward spirit?

In the Sox case, Sisyphus' rock seems to be the .500 mark.

What's all this about syphilitic rocks?

Sisyphus's punishment was meted out for the sin of hubris. With all the talk of another championship, it seems that the punishment does fit the crime.

I'm waiting for the Joe West jokes. There have to be a few.

Hat's off to the Ballpark DJ. Two hour and seven minute rain delays aren't so bad with gems like "Sure Shot" and "Gimme Shelter" coming over the PA.

Guy walks into a bar and asks for a"bin Laden".

Bartender asks, "What's that?"

"Two shots and a splash..."

Speaking of syphlitic jocks, the Lakers sure bowed out the playoffs with class...

On existential crises:

"I am not surprised that they proceed in this way; each alike belongs to a mind that is in suspense, a mind that is fretted by looking forward to the future. But the chief cause of both these ills is that we do not adapt ourselves to the present, but send our thoughts a long way ahead. And so foresight, the noblest blessing of the human race, becomes perverted. Beasts avoid the dangers which they see, and when they have escaped them are free from care; but we men torment ourselves over that which is to come as well as over that which is past. Many of our blessings bring bane to us; for memory recalls the tortures of fear, while foresight anticipates them. The present alone can make no man wretched."


You know, the Skanks could have run off and hid during all of this Soxiocrity. Instead, they're only four games up.

"Rue" and "day" are words that come to mind.

Or I don't think there's been a good political row here in a while:

Giving Obama credit for the death of Bin Laden is like giving Nixon credit for the moon landing.

Or did you hear about the chick who was a nanny in Chicago during and in her spare time took 100,000 photographs of city life in the mid-late 20th century? Fucking incredible:


Or at least credit for faking the moon landing.

Wow, that Vivian Maier work is incredible. But if she was off shooting pics all the time, what happened to all the kids she was supposed to be taking care of? I can see the headlines now:

"Newly discovered photography genius had more than pictures stored in her basement..."

Everyone knows it was the Doctor ;)

Really, J.O.? Because I don't recall the part where LBJ said "I'm bored with trying to go to the Moon. Let's try Mars instead."

And then, Nixon had to come in and improve NASA's resources and put in place an actual plan to reach the moon.

Yeah, I must have been asleep that day in US History class.

Bush gets credit for one thing about Obama catching Bin Laden: if he hadn't distracted our military with Iraq and actually made Bin Laden a priority, then Osama wouldn't have been chilling out in Abbottabad for 6 years waiting for Obama to come kill him.

Comparing the heroics and bravery of the Apollo crews with the cowardice and avarice of Dubya and his cohorts is pretty insolent, J.O. I guess trying to remain in the Republican mold has rotted your brain into just another mindless Limbaugh bootlicker?

Good enough?

Well that seemed to work, J.O.!

Kaz FTW! Also, made the mistake of reading the comments section of the Herald the other day...holy crap are there some serious nutjobs posting there - they can't have time for jobs and afford Internet access...are there enough public library computers for all of them? Anyway, only slightly ironic all those public library computer users, nutjob, TeaBaggers all want to cut funding to useless public institutions...

Interesting how Dems can't have a political discussion on-line without name calling and/or profanity.

Anyway, the belated discovery the that OBL was in fact still running AQ points out just how clueless our intel community is and has been for decades. For example, they miscalculated the size of the Soviet chemcial weapons stockpile by more than 100%,a and got its composition completely wrong. Before Desert Storm the IC told everyone Saddam was 6 years away from having a nuke. Turns out he was less than 6 months away (you can verify this from official IAEA documents if you choose) and if the elder President Bush has waited to give Iraq another 6 months to pull out of Kuwait on their own, there would have been literally hell to pay. So when the IC gave mixed messages (he might have but he might not have WMD) the younger President Bush assumed the worst and went into Iraq again. And while he was eventually proved incorrect, there was no deliberate lying to the American people or the UN, just an inaccurate assessment of the situation. Anyone who insists on believing otherwise is clearly just still upset over the percieved stealing of the 2000 election and the attempted impeachment of President Clinton and can't see the light of day.

Kaz, that's awesome, i.e., you've proven my point that the only thing that matters to the left is the party of the man in the chair.

The Bush policies that you guys railed about: The Patriot Act, rendition and Guantanamo Bay have been continued by the hope and change guy we've all been waiting for.

Should I mention that Obama's very own CIA director said last week that waterboarding probably played a role in finding Bin Laden?

Panetta, last Tuesday:
“We had multiple series of sources that provided information with regards to this situation… clearly some of it came from detainees [and] they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of those detainees,” he told NBC anchor Brian Williams.

When asked by Williams if water-boarding was part of the “enhanced interrogation techniques,” Panetta simply said “that’s correct.”

On to the "distraction" of Iraq:

The facts remain that prior to September 11, the following people/organizations labeled Saddam as a credible threat to develop and propagate weapons of mass destruction:

-Bill Clinton
-Hillary Clinton
-John Kerry
-Several other D's in Congress
-British intelligence
-Israeli intelligence

As per the casual charge leveled at Bush, were they all lying as well?

Or did Bush, in the aftermath of September 11 (when, I dunno, we might reasonably expect the President to be just a bit less risk tolerant with 3,000 people having recently fucking perished) make a call based on the best available intelligence at that time?

Pardon me, did you also see this recent wikileaks dump? *Somehow* this one didn't make it into the MSM:


A report in which multiple people confirm a liaison between the Iraqi gov't and the Taliban before September 11? Oh yes, I'm sorry, the authors of this report must be evil neocon Bush henchmen as well. Nothing to see here, move along.

Kaz, do you recall operation Desert Fox in 1998? Here's noted Cheney/Bush lapdog Madeline Albright:

"I don't think we're pretending that we can get everything, so this is - I think - we are being very honest about what our ability is. We are lessening, degrading his ability to use this. The weapons of mass destruction are the threat of the future. I think the president explained very clearly to the American people that this is the threat of the 21st century. [. . .] [W]hat it means is that we know we can't get everything, but degrading is the right word."

Iraq: Saddam Hussein. Weapons of Mass Destruction. "Threat of the 21st Century."

Well, there's the 15th topic.

It is kind of ironic that Senator and candidate Obama opposed tribunals, renditions, Guantanamo, preventive detention, Predator-drone attacks, the Iraq War, wiretaps, and intercepts before President Obama either continued or expanded nearly all of them, in addition to embracing targeted assassinations.

Not that I'm complaining. I'm enjoying watching the show.

All this shows is that the side of the aisle means nothing as we are all beholden to and puppets for the leaders of the military industrial complex which is simply an outgrowth of the Free Masons or the British East Tea Company...or the Vatican...or maybe L. Ron.

How 'bout those Bruins?

You beat me to it, soxinsix. How 'bout them Sox/Bruins/Celts, fuck, how 'bout them Revolution? :)For a second I had to check the URL, thought I'd stumbled into The Corner at NRO. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but bummer the 15th topic couldn't come tomorrow when at least I'll have legal access to high grade marijuana.

Oh, and in a blatant attempt to change the subject: how're people finding Game of Thrones? Worth adding to the queue? I gave up on The Killing after a few episodes, just wasn't holding my attention.

Natalie always finds a way to leave us wanting more...

J.O., there are so many consistently perpetrated lies or cherry-picked opinion that has already been debunked in your comment that I can't even address your main point because it would fall down due to lack of evidence when all of them were unpinned from it. I also don't plan on addressing them all on a sports blog today. But here's one example, the claim that waterboarding yielded information by Rumsfeld and Panetta is false. Guys who were waterboarded gave us information...months/years later under NORMAL interrogation methods. Almost everything learned by waterboarding turned out to be false. Furthermore, the question should be whether we can live with performing those acts of human rights abuse being done in our name (especially when we have gotten good information without doing it anyways).

Also, your apologist approach to Iraq is disappointing. Maybe we shouldn't have taken the country to war when we were already engaged elsewhere dealing with a situation that was largely out of control based on intelligence that we couldn't have a better feel for whether it was accurate or not. It was based on one well-paid informant's opinion that if it had been better checked would have been discovered to be false on its face. We didn't want to check and so we fed all of the other intelligence agencies with our surprisingly-beneficial, false testimony on Saddam's WMDs (that we didn't even acquire ourselves!)...without trying to verify any of it either. The UK said that as it did its own analysis in 2002, they never would have joined us in Iraq because they thought Curveball was a liar...except we kept assuring them the info was good and everyone was scared of "repeating 9/11".

The Bush administration didn't WANT good intelligence because it liked the story it was getting and the direction it was letting them go in. The same goes for wanting to waterboard at Gitmo. They like the story of it...damn the facts. The same goes for the entirety of your post(s).

There are a lot of things I don't like about President Obama that candidate Obama said he was going to fix, h.b.

However, he tried to close Guantanamo but Congress acted like that would mean letting all of the captives run free in the U.S. (like we don't know how to run a prison in this country?). They closed the purse strings on affording the transfer out of Guantanamo leaving him no alternative but to leave it open. That's on Congress, not Obama (yes, even the Democratic one...nobody said they have any spine either).

Thrones makes me uneasy and I keep saying "I'll never watch it again!" after each epi, yet I continue to begrudgingly watch it as people who've read the books say the it'll be worth it.

The Killing I like quite a bit. Though it probably does get a little too soapy at times. (And yet so does FNL and yet FNL works so well.)

In re: me


On another entirely random note: has anyone noticed that Dave O'Brien does not call Joe Castig "The Voice of the Red Soxs" any more? That is where all the conspiracy-theory types need to spending their energy.

As for me, I am going to plant my haricot verts, radish and sugar snap peas.

Also, come on, nutjob and TeaBagger name calling? Really? At a good Jesuit school you could even get detention for those names.

Great: Kaz "cherry picks" Curveball as the sole basis for the invasion of Iraq.

I'll cherry pick these Clinton-era UN resolutions (notice Iraq in continuous violation of each):

UNSCR 949 - October 15, 1994

* "Condemns" Iraq's recent military deployments toward Kuwait.

* Iraq must not utilize its military or other forces in a hostile manner to threaten its neighbors or UN operations in Iraq.

* Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors.

* Iraq must not enhance its military capability in southern Iraq.

UNSCR 1051 - March 27, 1996

* Iraq must report shipments of dual-use items related to weapons of mass destruction to the UN and IAEA.

* Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 1060 - June 12, 1996

* "Deplores" Iraq's refusal to allow access to UN inspectors and Iraq's "clear violations" of previous UN resolutions.

* Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 1115 - June 21, 1997

* "Condemns repeated refusal of Iraqi authorities to allow access" to UN inspectors, which constitutes a "clear and flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687, 707, 715, and 1060.

* Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

* Iraq must give immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to Iraqi officials whom UN inspectors want to interview.

UNSCR 1134 - October 23, 1997

* "Condemns repeated refusal of Iraqi authorities to allow access" to UN inspectors, which constitutes a "flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687, 707, 715, and 1060.

* Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

* Iraq must give immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to Iraqi officials whom UN inspectors want to interview.

UNSCR 1137 - November 12, 1997

* "Condemns the continued violations by Iraq" of previous UN resolutions, including its "implicit threat to the safety of" aircraft operated by UN inspectors and its tampering with UN inspector monitoring equipment.

* Reaffirms Iraq's responsibility to ensure the safety of UN inspectors.

* Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 1154 - March 2, 1998

* Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access, and notes that any violation would have the "severest consequences for Iraq."

UNSCR 1194 - September 9, 1998

* "Condemns the decision by Iraq of 5 August 1998 to suspend cooperation with" UN and IAEA inspectors, which constitutes "a totally unacceptable contravention" of its obligations under UNSCR 687, 707, 715, 1060, 1115, and 1154.

* Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA weapons inspectors, and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 1205 - November 5, 1998

* "Condemns the decision by Iraq of 31 October 1998 to cease cooperation" with UN inspectors as "a flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687 and other resolutions.

* Iraq must provide "immediate, complete and unconditional cooperation" with UN and IAEA inspectors.

UNSCR 1284 - December 17, 1999

* Created the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspections Commission (UNMOVIC) to replace previous weapon inspection team (UNSCOM).

* Iraq must allow UNMOVIC "immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access" to Iraqi officials and facilities.

* Iraq must fulfill its commitment to return Gulf War prisoners.

* Calls on Iraq to distribute humanitarian goods and medical supplies to its people and address the needs of vulnerable Iraqis without discrimination.

And I'll cherry pick this:

I know it was on a while ago but if you haven't seen The Walking Dead I'd highly reccomend that Natalie. At just six episodes you can easily get through it in a weekend and it will prepare you for the next series starting in October. If you dig it that is.

As far a politics go, I still think the US should have the equivalent of PMQ's. Nothing else if not fun.

Waterboarding = evil, horrible.

Assassination = Not so bad.

Like I said, I'm enjoying the show.

At least we can finally put all that silly anti-war shit to bed.

Progress... haven't felt this friggin good in a long time.

Holy shit, my existential crisis is gone too!

Go Obama. Go Obama...

Hail to the all powerful Jason O. He starts hb's existential crisis with his comment about 11 in jokes and ends it by provoking Kaz into a (barren imho) political stoush. Go Girl!!

Meanwhile, in the Natalie tradition, the almost 8 year old 'sox fan is now the owner of a personalised Bruin's jumper. Just in time for the devastation?

Oh yeah, and where do you get the legalised pot?

Really, h.b., it's that simplified for you? Glad your world is so monochromatic.

We've long held that the targeted killing of combatants are acts of war and fall outside of the prohibition on assassination (which implies no act of self defense).

Also, what does that have to do with anti-war? I don't think you'll find too many people who are against the war on the Taliban and Al Qaeda...when it started. However, you could certainly understand their continual loss of confidence in the prosecution of that war and thus a growing desire to end it as a mired waste of capital (political and financial)...which was exactly what Al Qaeda told us they wanted to draw us into to begin with. Most of the anti-war feelings began as a result of the drum beating towards Iraq...and it would seem they were well-justified knowing what we know now. So, silly shit? Sure, if only the world were that simple.


You're so sexy when you get angry.



Congrats, J.O. Way to prove Saddam was a bad person in the 90's. We also dismantled his ability to keep at it in the 90's with targeted missle strikes and air surveillance. What evidence do you have that he was capable of anything equally as bad in 2003 when we finally decided his WMD stores were overflowing with deadly goodness?

Hey, anyone else notice Crawford is (finally)over the Mendoza line? This is a sports blog, right?

yes but Crawford's improvement has come with Pedey's decline. Something like 5 for 39 over the homestand?

Kaz, my evidence consisted of bipartisan proclamations: Both the White House and a chorus of Dems, after looking at the best available intelligence, telling me that Saddam was a clear threat in 2002-2003.


Let it go, bro.

I mean I know you're absolutely certain you're alway right, can't possibly ever, not once been wrong, and that anyone who disagrees with you is some sort of idiot/fool/simpleton.

But just remember -- BigBri thinks *exactly* the same thing.

(And, honestly, he's more lighthearted and amusing.)

Food for thought.

Every President is going to cherry pick what he does/does not tell the public. I don't recall Wilson mentioning that the Lusitania's hold was full of ammo, Roosevelt noting that the Japanese did not intend to strike Pearl Harbor before declaring war or LBJ describing just how tenuous the evidence was for the second attack on the USS Maddox. President Bush sought to finish the war that started on his father's watch (note there was no peace treaty or armistice, just a cease-fire) because he belived the worst about Saddam and the Intel Community is almost always wrong anyway. Consider that in 1938 the primary, intel-driven war plan was to fight a war with Germany against England and France. Which, BTW, demonstrates just how much guts it took for President Obama to order the strike into Pakistan.

What a party! Multiple conversations going on on top of each other, but none louder than the political one going on over at the cheese n cracker table. Someone get them a beer and start talking sports or some shit like that :)

Here is my favorite (actually my most hated) part of the current political dialogue - it has become a sports league. My Team is awesome, Your team sucks. EVERYONE on my team is good, EVERYONE on your team sucks. EVERY decision your team makes is stupid. EVERY move my team makes is genius. All well n good when talking yankees-redsox. Not so good with things of real consequence. Any resemblance of this statement to actual cartoon characters and their creepy groupies, real or imagined, might be intended and then agai it might be purely coincidental.

Plus Kaz, you should love the Iraq invasion:
1) Bush had the courage of his convictions in that he didn't care about the political consequences for the GOP.
2) Recall Mr. Weak Chin himself Mitch McConnell going to Bush in '06 and asking him to pull out of Iraq because of the political damage.
3) Then Bush, true to form, doubles down on Iraq with the surge: Which worked brilliantly (primarily because Petraeus is a counterinsurgency expert) from a military perspective but was a disaster for the GOP in '06 and '08 elections.
4) So you could argue that Iraq brought you the hope and change we were supposedly all waiting for.

Well Kaz. War is dirty business and that's why we leave it to the professionals with the stomach to do it. Stick with the lab stuff and lay off the popular media "intel".

I was so excited when I saw "50 comments", bummed when I realized they were political. Tag me sleep-deprived but encouraged by last night's win.

Lackey is a dead loss. Worst deal ever.

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