Little black spot on the sun today

Al:
OK, so Bush Lied and people died; Pelosi lied and enemy combatants were drip-dried; and, now, Manny lied and fans are wide-eyed …

 

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Al:
Does anybody tell the truth anymore?

 

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Mike:
I want to believe.

 

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Doug:
What that he's telling the truth when he says he was just taking what the doc gave him and didn't know?

 

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Mike:
Yeah, it's like Bob Ryan says, "If any baseball superstar is capable of taking a medication in all innocence, and then finding out that something in it is included on Major League Baseball's banned list of substances, it is Manny Ramírez."

 

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Mike:
And Ryan also notes that Manny doesn't fit the PED profile — no change in body type or mass, no surge in powah numbahs …

 

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Doug:
I dunno, guy, I'd like to believe he's innocent, too, but c'mon, it's a friggin' Octo-mom stretch mahk of a stretch.

 

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Doug:
Why the hell do you put a female fertility drug into your body and, oh, by the way, not just any female fertility drug but one it so happens that male steroid users sometimes take to stimulate their body’s natural testosterone production?

 

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Al:
Seriously. And this is a guy who has a friggin' history of, er, being careless with the truth when it serves him.

 

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Al:
How can you believe him?

 

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Mike:
Look. Manny was the 2004 World Series MVP! Do you see where I'm going to with this?

 

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Mike:
I *want* to believe because alternative is too heinous to considah. I don't want even a hint of an asterisk anywhere near the 2004 club.

 

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Doug:
"Curse of the Gonadotropin"

 

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Al:
Jesus wept.

 

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Comments

[h.b.]

Look before anyone castigates me for not mentioning the Red Sox record 12-run inning last night or the death of former Red Sox great Dom DiMaggio, just let me say that I wanted to focus entirely on the Manny thing because it is the biggest story of the day and, moreover, is one that personally pains me.

[Colin]

Well h.b., nothing has been proven at all with Manny's time in the Red Sox. As a matter of fact, I think it was the past 15 tests he took (including with the Red Sox) he passed. It was only NOW with the Dodgers that he tested positive.

I see only butthurt Yankees fans and a potential uppity Rays fans railing Boston about this.

[louclinton]

I'm not buying it. Manny's dirty. And stop gloating about it, Joe Castiglione. Millar, Mueller, Pedro, Papi, Damon, Tek, Trot, Timlin? What happened to all of them?

As for Dom D., he's so old, I never even saw him play. I never understood the fixation with him.

There's a little squirt of surly for ya.

lc

[Steve in MD]

R.I.P. Dom

Re Ryan and Manny, Ryan may have defended him but on ESPN this morning he said he wouldn't vote him into the HOF if he had to do it today. What f*ing shame.

[Bob]

Colin, how could Skank fans rip on the Sox about this? They haven't won a World Series in years, but they're the acknowledged champions of steroid use.

Anyway, Manny's playing this whole thing brilliantly. "I just dumb man...take what given...Manny being Manny."

Which, given his history, might just work. Either Manny really is an idiot and childlike, or he's utterly brilliant. "I'll play myself as a court jester, and get away with everything because..."

[Colin]

Bob, MFY fans will do anything they can to rip on the Red Sox for anything. I once had to endure a tirade from a Yankees fan how the 2007 World Series was "bought" by Boston. Yes they're that pissy about it so this might add fuel to their emo fire.

However your analysis on his personality in all this is good.

[ogie oglethorpe]

Papelbon was asked about the difficulty of comprehending the banned list of substances.

"It's really easy, actually," Papelbon said. "They make a pamphlet for you in English and Spanish. You just read it and you know what you can't take. It's really not that hard."

Ha! It's so easy that even Papelbon can figure it out.

My view: people can and will say whatever they want to try to downplay or tarnish the success of our teams. Doesn't bother me a bit because there's nothing that can be done about it. No one can tarnish my memories and personal experience of watching our teanms win three superbowls and two world series. Everyone can take their asterisks, spygates and whatever else and shove it up their respective @sses.

Happy Friday to all. Go B's!!

[granular_serene]

props to dom d - not only does he hold the sox consecutive game hit streak (34, not quite up to his bro's standards), he's got a curse connection (if you believe in those things) - he either had to come out of or did not play in the last game of the '46 ws - some say if he'd been in cf we'd be talking about dom dimaggio's outfield assist rather than enos slaughter's mad dash (and i don't think pesky hesitated).

re the manram, there's no way you take something from your doctor as a baseball player without consulting with mlb first - no matter what it is. 50 games is a lot, as is $8 mil. i don't think this necessarily taints 04 and 07 - i think a player can be tainted, but not a whole team (unless every guy is on the juice, which is unlikely at best). it hurts me too h.b. - i love manny and apologized for him left and right during his tenure in left field. i hate to see some shine come off him - for all the bitterness about how he left, he's a special player and i'm glad he played here.

damn, i'm still apologizing for him...

[birthofasoxfan97]

This morning I asked my daughter what she thought might happen if I wore my Manny jersey today.

She said "they'll whisper 'she's a witch! Burn her!'"

[LarryE]

lc:

Usually I get a chuckle and/or agree with most of your postings but you're a little off base with Dom. A seven'time all-star and posseser of the longest hitting streak in Sox history should count for something. You can name the number of Sox who have appeared in seven or more all-star games on one hand. Williams, Yaz and who else?

[birthofasoxfan97]

Nice Police reference btw.

[Scott]

RIP Dom.

It's a shame that the haters now have another arrow in their quiver. That's really what it's all about. People forget that there were PED users on all the WS championship teams in the 90's and beyond. Manny is one of my hero's and his image will not be tarnished in my book.

[soxdownunder]

Jesus wept?

And no wonder by Christ.

[thank you James Joyce, not the umpire]

[louclinton]

@LarryE

Snap on me.

Boggs, Fisk, Reggie Smith, Vern Stevens, Clemons, Manny,Jim Rice, Malzone, Pedro, Lynn, Rick Ferrell, to name a few.

None of those were during WWII

Heck Rick Burleson made it 4 times.

Your mileage may vary

[soxdownunder]

'no change in body type or mass' - oh come one, pu-lease. I http://picasaweb.google.com.au/soxdownunder/MemoriesOfManny02# "> love the guy but spare me!

[Kaz]

Any potential rule breaking from Manny in 2004 didn't help Millar walk, didn't help Roberts steal second, didn't help Bill Mueller single Dave Roberts home to tie the game in the bottom of the 9th against Rivera. You can't even say that a juiced Manny helped win that game in the tied bottom of the 12th, because he only singled and Ortiz hit the HR to win the game anyways. The World Series was so lopsided that you couldn't possibly put any of the wins on just one man's contributions.

So, Manny's actions in no way color how I look at 2004 or 2007 either for that matter. Until it's determined how far back he started taking anything, I also am unsure how you can even begin to suggest what may or may not need an asterisk or any other stupid punctuation you want to throw at the problem.

[h.b.]

Love the squirts of surly from lc. It's like a Grey Poop-on. :)

[soxdownunder]

bitch tits btw

[louclinton]

Exclusive Clip Of Manny Under Doctor's Care

[SAC]

Go-go-gonad juice.

You're gonna love my nuts.

[soxdownunder]

http://38cliches.blogspot.com/ "> ouch!! 0 comments here

[Bob]

Yeah, LC's back to 75% surly, 25% lovable.

Just the way we like him.

By the way, anybody named Dom with a last named starting with D should be wary these days.

[yazbread]

I'd also like to note the Fruitbat giving up back to back jacks in the ninth last night. Sweet.

[ponch in jerz]

if you want to laugh yourself sick go check out LoHud or River St Blues. Them's some bitter people just reveling in the fact that something might ease their pain, the fact he passed 15 tests notwithstanding.
.
Does it really matter anymore, or should we just come to terms with the idea that a good numbers of the players in this era used something and move on?

[Jeff in NC]

re Manny - who cares what he says about the tests. His word ain't worth the bitchtits he's going to have one day. His word is worth no more than any other accused man's word: The 3 rules of a good freind of mine: 1) It wasn't me 2) I didn't do it 3) that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

When the facts make their way to our eyes and ears I want to know exactly what he took and when he tested + and when he did not. If priors were all negative then fuck all the 04 haters. If he tested + back in the day, then my response is "what championship team had a person who didn't?" 96+ yanks - obvious they did, Angels? Matthews, Jr among others, White Sox - so recent how could they not? RedSox - I have always suspected Mr. Musclehealsfromachilles ruptureinrecordtimenowonthebrwers as a juicer.

Are all of the Champs supposed to lose their trophies? what about the glorious 70's Steelers teams?

This is not a defense of cheaters or retahds who can't follow rules even Paps can understand, but as far as condemning a whole team and the sanctity of the 04sox - I'll have none of it. As I recall, the skanks had some avowed juicers on the 04 losing team - sounds like an even field to me.

[h.b.]

OK. Mea culpa time.

This is one of those cases of my forgetting the strip content has reverberations to the larger Soxaholix community.

To that end, then, let me try to back away from the notion that the characters today really believe 2004 will carry an asterisk because of Manny's transgressions.

Today was just a case of the "asterisk" and "Jesus wept" theme falling into place and making the strip easy to write (I'm naturally lazy) rather than any heartfelt emotion on the part of the characters or myself.

And as for the "personally pains me" bit in my earlier comment, let me clarify that the "pain" here is due to the fact that Manny was one of my fave Sox players of all time. And, like many of you, I was a total apologist for him during his tenure with the Sox.

This then becomes another tarnishing of my memory of him. But in and of itself, using PEDs doesn't bother me nearly as much as his lying about injury etc and the whole way things ended last season.

[LarryE]

lc:

WW II took away 3 years from Dom's playing career (ages 27-29) so he may have made the all-star team even more times. But I forgive you of your less-than-reverent treatment of Dom given that your less-than-reverent treatment of Manny cracked me up.

However, to be factual, Fisk and Lynn only made the AS team 6 times as a Sox, Reggie Smith twice, Stephens, Ferrell and Pedro 3 times, Clemmens 4 times, Malzone five times and Manny six times. So the only ones you mentioned that qualify are Boggs and Rice. Not bad company to be the only player other than Williams, Yaz, Rice and Boggs to have appeared in 7 or more all-star games as a Red Sox.

[Jason O.]

Recall the nadir of 1994-1995? Think back with me: With attendance and ratings steadily declining, is baseball relevant anymore? Don't forget to add a labor dispute and work stoppage.

Four short years later:

"1998 has been unbelievable...I love you, Chicago"
-Sosa

"My bat is going to the Hall of Fame right next to Roger Maris's bat, and I'm damn proud of it."
-McGwire

The only thing funnier than Gammons, Olney and the rest of "mainstream" baseball media defending Selena Roberts's credibility is their current zeal in decrying the steroid era that they faithfully cheered for almost 10 years.

But can you blame them? The media is part of MLB's value chain, and their own careers were boosted, prolonged and revived by "that magic summer of Sammy and Mark."

MLB wants you to focus on the Manny and Clemens and Bonds and Brian McNamee and Victor Conte and Jose Canseco. These clowns are intended to divert your attention from the truth:

PEDs saved baseball.

[sonomasox]

There's a piece of Mike, Doug and Al that has been bouncing around my head over the last 24hrs - and its why HB should be our next poet laurette or whatever they give to bloggers -

I've been feeling all that - the unfortunate bottom line is that I'm pretty certain that every single pro athlete has been on something. I try to digest and just enjoy the games.

[Bob]

H.B., Manny was also one of my fav players of all time.

And of my best friend Robert's, too, who goes to almost every game with me. In fact, I sat with him and and his (now) wife and watched the first pitch to Manny as a Red Sox leave the park in about one second.

Even after the way he "worked" his way out of Boston, we both continued to aplogized for him. I hated what he did, but I loved what he did before that.

Yesterday, Robert called me at work. As only best friends can do, we simply shared two words.

Manny? Manny.

[Go Sox. Go Heels. Yankees suck. Dook sucks.]

And in other news... Yankee fans booed Mariano Rivera. Yeah, the guy who has given them over ten years of hall of fame caliber pitching, who is the very picture of humility and charity. Yeah, they booed him. Assholes.

And yet I guarantee they will give A-Rod a standing O when he comes back...

[sonomasox]

I've always thought that the internet/fantasy league stuff also played a part in saving baseball. Sure PED's and the "magical" summer helped but wonder about the effect of the interwebs.

[Billy Mahty]

PBS Kids on cheating:

“I feel it causes many problems such as mistrust and also no one wins when cheating.”
--Will

“DUH!!! Cheating is the worst thing you could do in life!”
--Nikki, 11

“Cheating’s fine with me. I've never been caught!”
--John, 11

I love to cheat. I don't understand why I can't cheat. Could you please tell me why I cannot cheat?"
--Mathew, 12

“Cheating's wrong. You learned that in kindergarten. Surely you know by now, but some people just don't learn their lesson.”
--Tyler, 11

[Soulie]

Why do baseball fans get all hot and bothered about the PEDs, but it's just accepted as a given in football?

I'm just not that concerned about this. What does burn me is media folks looking down their nose at bloggers because they don't have access, while looking the other way while this stuff was dominating baseball. Hey, you don't get to be holier than thou when you have failed as the gatekeepers.

[COD]

Why is it ok for a surgeon to use lasers on your eyes to improve your natural abilities, but not ok for a doctor to use chemicals to do the same? What if (when?) somebody comes up with a way to use lasers to increase muscle mass?

I'm not saying drugs are good, there are the side effects to deal with. I am saying that we allow a lot of "cheating" in sports when it comes to using artificial means to improve physical ability. Our puritanical war on drugs has decided that some methods are ok, and other aren't. The distinction is really pretty arbitrary.

[Kaz]

I see some of you are from the Jim Rome "bigger, harder, faster...I don't care if they die on the field; it's their choice" school of thought. :)

[w8r]

guess the female fertility drugs explains the the long dreads. Funny last nights record inning; that Kobayashi guy should stick to stuffing his face with nathans famous. Over under on Crawford steals tonight 3?

[Soulie]

Kaz - that's a different arguement. There's a difference between The Purity of the Sport vs the well-being of those who entertain us. That is where the focus should be.

[Jeff in NC]

COD - I'm completely on board with the point you make. It is unfortunately too much to ask of the media and MLB to distinguish between harmful PEDs and not so harmful PEDs. As you say we are OK with certain forms of cheating, but not others? stealing signs is part of the game, but TVs in the dug out goes too far? laser eyes are ok, drugs not? hydrocortisone ok, but painkillers not?

Its not that hard to disinguish between harmful drugs like steriods (which I am against for all of the obvious reasons - health, damage, kids use, potential for forced use without care for future effects,etc.), and not harmful enhancers.

Startin' to feel like a good ol' sweet leaf v. fire water debate.

[h.b.]

I'm generally of the same mind as Jeff in NC and COD. I think PED use should be opened up and done with med/doctor oversight.

And, of course, you know where I stand on the "sweet leaf." :)

Though it does strike me as unfair in the current MLB scheme that some use banned PEDs and some don't.

[Bob]

Meeting and beer cart.

Have a great weekend all. I for one am gonna try some female fertility drugs and see what's what.

Hopefully we'll have something fun to yak about on Monday.

(If I'm pregnant, we're really going to have some interesting topics.)

[NolaSox]

Since y'all brought up the sweet leaf - I thoughtI would share one of my favorite NOLA headlines. ">http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2009/05/jamaica_trip_a_blur_mayor_ray.html"> Jamaica trip a 'blur' Mayor Ray Nagin says I wish there were PED's available for elected officials.

[Harwich Rich]

Bob,if you come back with long,long dreads we're all in trouble :)

[RonF]

Yeah, I apologized for Manny too. At least for his idiosyncracies. But when he decided that the way to get the contract he wanted and the move he wanted was to lay down on the field I soured on him.

I'm not happy to see this. I'm not getting off because Manny's in trouble. I don't feel sorry for him, though. It's a situation of his own making. The guy I feel sorry for is Joe Torre, actually.

[BigBri(steroid free and feelin' fine)]

Give 'em back bitches. 2004 rings. 2007 rings. Give.them.back. You sanctimonious pieces of shit. Give.them.back. You glass-house-livin' stone-throwin' fuckers of mothers. Give.them.back.

P.S. Happy Mothers Day

[Harwich Rich]

Did somebody hear something?? No,I didn't think so.

[NotASoxFanAtAll]

I am not a Sox fan (nor a Yankee fan), and I do find your fan base extremely annoying.

HOWEVER, it seems to me that even if it is shown that some Red Sox players on the '04 and '07 teams used PEDs, it would not delegitimize those championships. What's becoming clear is that PEDs pervaded the game, and no team was clean. But if that's true, then there's no reason to think the Red Sox benefited more than any other team. I think the implications of the steroid era are more for individual stats and records, which are now suspect compared to other eras. But playoff results compare teams in the same era. So until and unless there is a complete record of who used PEDs on which teams in which season, there's no reason to think any one team benefited more than another. (For example, players from the two NY teams were overrepresented in the Mitchell report simply because two NY-based trainers were sources. No reason to think that report contained a representative share of users from each team, either.)

[louclinton]

from my cold dead hands, bbsf

[Kaz]

Joe Morgan is a moron. Examples:

Papi hits a double off the Monster: "You don't hit it there, you drive it there." Yeah, uh, whatever, Joe.

Papi on THIRD with ZERO outs in the 8th: "Theo is making a real mistake here by not pinch running for Ortiz." Bay hit a wall ball double next pitch scoring Ortiz.

Bay on second when Lowell hits a chopper near SS with the middle infield playing back. Bay takes third when Longoria moves over to cut off the hit (even though the pitcher fields it first): "Sometimes you don't have to steal." What? Third base, Joe? Really? Is that why they call 2nd base "scoring position" or what?

And that's only 3 consecutive ABs in the 8th inning...there was easily 15x the Morgan stupidity tonight...

[Kaz]

Forgot one from Morgan.

The pitch Papi "drove" (not hit) to the Monster was a huge changeup meatball over the plate near the middle of the strike zone:

"That offspeed pitch was outside for Papi." (without missing a beat, K Zone shows it squarely in the strike zone) "Right there, over the plate." *forehead slap*

[Kaz]

Today was a good sports day.

[Bob]

Who are we going to give those rings back to BigLie? You? The Yankees? (The biggest steroid-infested team in all of baseball).

Or your mom, who needs them to pay the mortgage and your comic collection bill?