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Cold Feet

So the Boss-lite is now thumping his chest and "vowing 'not to be played' by the Red Sox."


Heh. Memo to the little Steiney Whiney – You're being played like a banjo in the hands of that wonky-eyed Dixie Chick.


I sure hope so.


I mean I've been flippant about trading Ellsbury the past week or so, but that's only because I assumed he was off limits.


Seriously. Now that Jacoby is "on the table" I've got buttahflies in my stomach.


Yeah, the closah you look at Santana's numbahs, the more it seems he's ovahpriced.


Not just that. What has made the Red Sox pitching so formidable is how our guys seem to turn it up to 11 during the postseason. I mean not just Beckett and Schilling but guys like Lestah, too.


And remembah how Derek Lowe went all balls to the wall in 2004 and 2003?


Absolutely. That is Red Sox baseball. Now consider Santana in the postseason – 1 and 4 with a 3.97 ERA.


The postseason is littered with the detritus of guys like Sabathia, Westbrook, and Francis.


Yeah, those guys walk around the regulah season all bow legged because they're hung like bulls …


But when Octabah comes, they're about as verile as a waxed tranni on estrogen injections.


Don't do it, Theo. Keep us the Navajo.



I dunno. JBecks, Santana, Matsuzaka-san, Schilldizzle, and Timmuh? When the weak end of your rotation is the knuckleballing wondah and Mr. Bloody Sock himself, that is pretty ill.

Fuck it. Lets keep Jacobson Ellsburyton come hell or high water. That fucker is exciting.

Not just the post season-in four games at Fenway this year he an ERA of 7.20

It's not like Santana is the only thing available, too. McAdam links the Sox to both Dan Haren and Ben Sheets, and Erik Bedard is going to be available right quick now that he's said he's definitively not signing an extension with the O's.

Fenway Park lifetime ERAs:

Santana - 6.89
Haren - 4.60
Bedard - 8.10

Sheets has never pitched in the Fens.

And when Hanky Hank "takes his offer off the table" today, that will allow the Sox to lower their offer.

Of course, Hanky Hank has already proven his word is worth nothing, with his dealings with A-Fraud, so who knows.

don' trade the jacoby, te. we don't need pitching that bad and the yankees will blow goats with or without santana.

god bless,lc

Lifetime ERA at the Fens isn't a compelling stat for me... it's a very low sample size, against a terrifying lineup. What scares me about the Santana deal is paying free agent money, PLUS prospects (yeah, this has been said before).

For the money, I'd take Bedard, Haren, or Sheets... hell, you could take any two of them for Santana money.

I know you're not the characters, hb, so I'll address them.

Santana's ERA in postseason starts is about 3.00 (9 ER in 27.2 innings). This is if you let his first year (2002--all relief appearances) go.

In his last two postseasons he is 1-1 in 3 starts with an ERA of about 1.35. Two starts against the Yanks in '04 (Gardenhire should NOT have pulled him so early the second start, as I recall), and one against the A's in '06.

You guys can't be serious, refusing to give up the equivalent of Brett Butler for the best pitcher in baseball? The injun may be fun to watch, but jeebus, get real.

Bedard is pretty frigging good.

Yeah, I don't like this deal if Free Taco is anywhere near it. Time to pull back.

I didn't know Bedard was on the market this offseason. He was a fantasy stud for me back in '06. Get him!

re Santana's postseason ERA.

The stat Susan cites was taken from a SoSH post. Not fact checked nor authenticated.

And while I didn't purposely put an inaccurate stat in the dialog, now that it is there, I kind of like it.

The characters are meant to mimic real fans, and goodness knows most talk in hearsay, half-truths, and bullshit more often than not. That's part of the fun.

Bedard is damned good, could be great, but I wouldn't call him or Haren Johan-lite.

Over the last 4 years, sub-3.5 ERA's in how many of those years:

Santana: 4
Haren: 1
Bedard: 1

Over the last 4 years, 200 IP or more:

Santana: 4
Haren: 3
Bedard: 0

I really am cool with what the Red Sox are doing...you can have one of our good MLB-readies (it's Ellsbury or Lester, not both) and several good prospects, but we're not raising the bar further (unless maybe you toss us a decent reliever?).

I think the Yankees take him in the end, but the nice part is...I'm not particularly scared about it.

I really think Ellsbury's worth giving up for Santana. It's not much of a question mark, though I admit that watching Ellsbury could be great fun. But I've watched Santana pitch a lot (I try to watch his starts when possible 'cause I love watching him fool guys with the changeup) and that is effing fun too, if he's not pitching against you.

I love Ellsbury. I would be thrilled to watch him play for us for a long time. He's electric. That said, I'll fall back to two default positions: 1) Theo et al *may* know more than I and 2) history suggests that more often than not the correct move is to take the established player over the promise of the rookie, no matter how electric. Color me excited for 2008 either way!

Oh, and I was not criticizing you at all, h.b. because I readily accept that your viewpoint does not necessarily equal the characters. I'm just trying to tell Circle and what's-his-face over there that Johan is not particularly a postseason folder...though his '03 was bad, actually.

Pettitte's returning, kids. (Leverage)

Strip characters already serving sour grapes re: Santana? (i.e., He's overpriced?)

That was fast-- Faster than usual.

I want to keep Ellsbury and the kid pitchers. They have already produced with the pressure on. I fear trading Lester who I see as a future Pettitte or, maybe, a Santana. Jacoby may be the hot hitting, base stealing lead-off guy we have dreamt of. This team as it is won it all. The kids will only get better. As for the Yanks, they only get older.

Nat almost won me over until I read jo's coment.

hb citing Velvet Rope stats= always dangerous.

sno day up here, and welcome back mr. imus. what you said was rude, but the cornholing your got was ruder.

no disrespect,


Cool it with your hopes for Bedard.

Before the O's trade their ace to the reigning WS champions -- within the AL East, no less -- they will demand a whole lot more than the Twins want right now.

You can kiss the farm goodbye.

Sour grapes?

No, everything is still really sweet.

Maybe if the Yankees had, you know, won a WS in the past few years and we hadn't, there'd be some sour.

But not now.

All the pressure is on you guys. We are the defending champs.

If Santana goes to the Yankees you guys still have to actually win. Just signing the guy doesn't get it done (c.f., Johnson, Randy; Clemens, Roger; Pettitte, Andy; etc.)

And you are being played. Theo's farts have more baseball sense then little Boss has total.

Falling back on past World Series victories? Isn't that what fuckingbandwagonfrontrunningyankeesfans do? Haven't they done it for years, and hasn't that disqualified them as "true fans?" Unlike the brave and stoic and pure Red Sox Nation, who roots for their team through thick and thin and would never behave like that?

This is like a movie were the FBI agent has to become like the serial killer in order to catch the serial killer.

Pettitte's back: It gives the Yankees leverage, which is why HS made those statements. I'm sure the RS front office has already countered in some way. That's how this works.

Won it in '07? '04? Super. That's the past. The season and the rivalry renews every year. That's the secret...why baseball is so great.

Ah the old "Wait 'til next year!" mantra, eh, Jason.

Meanwhile, keep saying it to yourself, maybe that'll make it true.

But we both know, the reality of winning 2 of the past 4 World Series just absolutely trumps any "rah rah isn't this rivalry great" platitudes you want to trot out.

Those may work with your Yankees fan buddies, but not among us.

When all is said and done I think it remains to be seen how JS would perform in a big market town - be it Boston or New York. IMHO

Circle is right

Jacoby has shown that he can perform on the biggest stage unlike some of the higher profile players in the league. I say let's keep him. The offer on the table is plenty fair considering that the Sox will have to negotiate his contract as well.

Oh, the reality!! Boo-hoo..the Yankees are losers, forever beaten!! Now that they have all of their free agents back you'd better let them have Santana too.

After all, he's overpriced.

"all their free agents back"

pay for play ARod
Posada will be 85 at the end of his contract
Mo will be older
Petitte? Roger Clemons lite-same outcome

I would be really worried if I was a mfy fan, that they may all snap their vertebrae at once.

love and kisses,


Oooh, scary, those Yankees free agents.

You're talking the same load of shit you've been talking for the past 4 years.

How's that working out for you, J.O.?

How's Randy Johnson doing?

Oh, yeah, and a year ago at this time (you can look it up) you were crowing about how good Matsuzaka was going to look in pinstripes.

You are beaten on the field. You are beaten off the field.

Clap Clap.

This negotiation is a success for Theo already. He has gotten the Yankess to offer guys they weren't offering a couple weeks ago (Hughes). He hasn't offered a package including more than 1 of the circle of three (Ellsbury, Lester, Buchholz).

Worst case, Yanks get Santana at a very high cost in players and prospects, tie up a maziollion dollars extending his contract, and we watch a bunch of homegrown talent for years to come.

Seriously, J.O. Your bravado in here is so hollow, even Susan's proverbial trannie on estrogen could still shatter it with his/her micro-stiffie.

I almost *want* Santana to go to the Yankees now that Hughes AND Melky are on the table. If he gives us trouble once or twice all year, that's at least better than him *and* Hughes bolstering their rotation. If we get him, great, but I've always said the only deal that makes sense for us is Crisp, Lester, and one or two prospects. If that's not enough to satisfy the Twins' GM bloodlust, then let him get in bed with Mr. Hankey (see: SOUTH PARK, talking poo).

Even the Yankees don't have unlimited salary and if Santana's going to end up at something like $25M/year and A-Rod's soaking up $30M/year and Posada/Rivera set to get $28M/year...then they don't have the cash to start grabbing up the other good contracts for years to come.

Pettitte will also suck away good money for this next year before Santana's contract extension would kick in. So, I say, let them spend stupidly and let us have the wiggle room to grab talent each year that we see fit when getting some one like Kazmir or bringing back Hanley Ramirez as they near the FA table and teams look to ditch the salary jump.

Thank god we are not the Yankees.

You've got me there: I concede that your load of shit has changed in 4 years, if only cosmetically: From the Cask and Flagon to free advertising for a Venezuelan dictator! Well done!

Also, if we don't get Santana, then could you see a Crisp-for-Saltalamacchia trade? That'd be awesome...just because I'd want to immediately run out and get a Sox Saltalamacchia away jersey.

That's all you got? Seriously?

Christ, Jason, that makes A-Rod's ball slap move seem downright potent by comparison.

Maybe you should take a break from watching the Yankees and allow yourself to build up some power? All the half-assedness you witness year in and out seems to have handicapped you a bit.

//Hopefully we'll have something fun to yak about on Monday//

Yeah...this is fun.

BTW-Jason O is to h.b. as Hankey is to Theo.

Nothing better than a Mr. Hankey reference on a snowy day...

as for jo's flaccid grandiloquence, at least he's fighting the good fight, albeit with diminished resources.



Santana is not worth Teh Jacoby.

The best part about this.. Mr. Hankie deliberately talking out his ass about how they refuse to be "played". I really hope that the stankees go crazy and overpay out their asses for Santana, and then he cracks under the "win at all costs" pressure. Perhaps Mr. Hankie forgot he's got a new manager - not the guy that took him to the playoffs the last 11 out of 12 years.

Really though, Santana is a great pitcher, and even though my feeling is that we would be trading away a future star in Ellsbury, I'd say do it. After all, Coco's slump cant possible carry all through next year, can it? :P


From Ken Rosenthal:

The Twins, expected to resume discussions with the Yankees and Red Sox about left-hander Johan Santana on Monday, are considering filing tampering charges against the Yankees because of Hank Steinbrenner's public comments about the pitcher, according to a major-league source.

As already noted, JE has been there and done it. I am very, very fearful of the overpriced saviors; this is no exception. I think time and again it's been proven that what drives this team is a very mysterious chemistry element and I'm loathe for anyone to screw with it.

Coco's slump can't continue through next year? You're right - no way that could happen! ;-) I'm pretty sure we also won't need some hotshot on staff to plug left at any point either...certainly not in August or September.

Wow, sins of the father, sins of the son, Bob.

King George regularly rode roughshod all over the tampering rules (Winfield - $225,000 fine, Randy Johnson - investigation, Bernie Williams - investigation, A-Rod this year - just narrowly avoided problems there too...).

I don't see why Hank is any smarter than his father when it comes to these things.

PS - I just love the title of this blog entry over at Bugs and Cranks:

Hank Steinbrenner: Red Sox Best Acquisition


Thanks for the link to that, Kaz.

Goddamn if the second generation substance abusing (allegedly) dumb fat asses don't make for great entertsinment.

Go Pats.

Yours In Christ,


Hwh. The "inheritance generation" very, very rarely achieves what the "working for money" generation did.

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