The upsize revolution

Mike:
See now this is what puts the hawt in hot stove. The top bid for the posting of Daisuke Matsuzaka and $44 million for JD Drew.

 

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Doug:
Christ I love with the stove is glowing before the Thanksgiving bird is stuffed, but I'm confused...

 

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Doug:
42 million wasabi just to talk to Boras-san about Matsuzaka-san and another 44 million and 4 years for Drew from the same team that was unwilling to give a few more million and an extra contract year to Pedro Martinez and Johnny Damon?

 

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Doug:
Did I miss the "now we spend money like bonah-throbbed drunk at Club d'Exotica" memo or something?

 

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Mike:
Well, first off, guy, it's not your money, so no need to fret.

 

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Doug:
Dude, who said I'm fretting? I'm just trying to make sense of the "strategery" of '05 and '06 in light of this recent news.

 

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Mike:
OK, the way I see it, the club was nevah unwilling to spend …

 

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Mike:
Look, they busted the bank on Renteria only to have him go mental. And Theo gambled that Pedro's shouldah wouldn't hold out, and it hasn't. Point goes to Theo. Meanwhile Coco Crisp's numbahs were close to Damon's and considering Coco's age and lower salary needs, that seemed like a risk worth taking.

 

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Doug:
Alrighty, then. Let's strap on our Wondahjocks and sign Clemens while we're upsizing.

 

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Comments

[Rob in CT]

Drew!?! $44 MM?? JD Drew?!? Jesuz F-ing Mohammed. Please say it ain't so...

Anyway, with all the recent the political debate at our beloved site and our hiatus from Lostaholix until after the Super Bowl, I offer the following mash up comment from Seth Meyers which covers most of the bags:

"Political analysts are saying that the Democratic victories in Tuesday's elections were a referendum on President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq and various congressional scandals, as well as the environment, the economy, wiretapping, torture, Katrina, military tribunals, illegal immigration, Osama's continued freedom, Kyoto, abortion rights, the national debt, SARS, the XFL and the death of Mr. Ecko." --Seth Meyers

Heh.

[Jason O.]

At least a 0.5 probability that the Red Sox have no serious intentions, and it's simply a move to block the Yankees. This makes perfect sense, given that 2006 left Boston relatively worse off vs. the Yankees.

Nonetheless, it is delicious to see the desperate Red Sox grip the checkbook and wield the pen while Cashman maintains cool restraint.

[louclinton]

Couldn't have said it bettah myself:

私は「今私達使うお金をのようなbonah動悸を打った」のクラブd'Exoticaで酔ったメモまたは何かを逃したか。

The merch income from Hokkaido alone will justify the ¥ which Theo-san and
甘美 (Luscious) will drop on D-Mat. He pay for himself.

What better way to put the final nail in the coffin of the emasculation of Japanese society after WWII than to make them members of Red Soxの国家 (RSN). Now, that's a victory...

Here's hoping for a bis ass Matsushita sign taking the place of that creepy Gulf Oil emblem in the left field corner.

I'm in a translating frenzy today, so I hope Big Dope drops by so I can translate some panels into P.S. 133 terms.

all my love,

lc

[h.b.]

Q: How do you know when Jason 0. doesn't really believe his own comments?

A: When he forgets to use Latin.

:)

BTW LC, yes, yes, the Citgod will be retired as part of the redesign. Maybe even sooner if I can find a temporary replacement bg image that doesn't require more than 5 mins work to implement.

Fuck Hugo Chavez and the oil tanker he rode in on.

[Bob]

//...while Cashman maintains cool restraint.//

Bwa...bwa-ha-ha...BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

Sorry. That's just too funny. The Skankees payroll is well over two-hundred million, they're paying millions to the Orioles just to take Wright off their hands, The Big Eunich is making over one million per facial pock-mark...the list goes on and on.

Restraint?

Oh, Jason. Is there a Latin phrase about restraint in excess?

[LuciosClintonious]

//Is there a Latin phrase about restraint in excess//

Let's go with

frenum in redundo

[Rob in CT]

Lou - Awesome! But one minor point. The Citgo company is Venezualean, not Arab Gulf (although Chavez might as well be Iranian - prick...)

Anyway, that was just great! And Jason, are we talking about the same restrained Cashman who just dumped Jaret Wright and enough cash to cover his payroll on Baltimore? Uh, ok. Whatever...

[Rob in CT]

Aw, shit!@ I gotta stop leaving my comments unposted before heading to a meeting. Now I look as redundant as I feel on this board most of the time. Not to mention others putting the notions far more eloquently than me.

Sorry.

[vasoxfan]

HB
The first pane's link
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writ...ay.scoop/1.html
Is broke.
Thanks for all you do.

[Ryan with a capital "R"]

The idea that the Red Sox overbid with the idea to block the Yankees is sloppy. It would mean screwing Boras. No team is going to do that intentionally.

[Dave S.]

The $4 million the Yanks sunk on Wright was the buyout they would've had to pay to just let him go, so that's actually not a great example. His options were $7 million for another year of craptastic pitching from Wright, $4 million to let him go and get a draft pick, or $4 million (+ league minimum) to get a 23 year old guy who threw 41 K/17 BB in 53 2/3 innings of 3.35 ERA relief in the AL East. That's just turning shit into shinola...hardly indiciative of outrageous spending.

It's a bit thick to keep insisting the Yanks nutty spending somehow negates that of the Red Sox when the latter just dumped $90 million to sign Drew and negotiate to sign a pitcher. I'm looking forward to seeing just how much Boras bilks out of the Sox for the man, the 200-pitch 19-inning CG throwing myth, Mothra.

It does seem clear that Steinbrenner is actually letting Cashman do his job without interference. Now he'll only go and sign Zito for $90 million. That's restraint, for you!

[h.b.]

Link is fixed. Thanks for catching that one and pointing it out.

BTW these Wonderjocks aren't as comfortable as the ad promises, but, dang, what a load of ball cleavage I've got now.

[Bob]

I agree, H.B. My Wonderjock isn't big enough to carry the "boys," so it creates a pinching effect.

(And if you believe that, I have some Yankee Restraint for sale.)

[Dave S.]

...Sox FO insists that theirs wasn't a blocking bid. To whet your appetites further over there, BP has an article suggesting that Matsuzaka's best translated stat-line comparable over the past few years has been Clemens:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5699&PHPSESSID=780892c54d58adeacf0b1f5b0868aa36

We're talking Clemens of the Astros ilk here. Not bad at all. I don't think the Yanks losing this bid is a sign of them knowing something the Sox don't...I think the Sox were just willing to outspend.

[louclinton]

//Sox FO insists that theirs wasn't a blocking bid//

Glad to see that Rummy has landed on his feet as Red Sox Minister of Information.

As Mark Twain (may have) said: "I trust all Christians, but cut the goddamn cards"

[Bob]

Or, as Ronnie Reagan used to say, "Trust, but verify."

[Dave S.]

...which reminds one of the saying, "Everything before 'but' is bullshit"

[Jason O.]

"Sox FO insists that this wasn't a blocking bid."...and Hitler also signed a non-agression pact with Stalin.

I give the RS credit. If you finish a distant third behind your main rival, it's critical to prevent them from improving.

It easily creates value for the RS to outbid for the man in this context.

[mary j]

Aren't you guys worried though? Here you team has tried everything, according to plan, in the last year to compete, and they end up in third place. Now, they're willing to break the bank wide open?

Things don't end well for the teams that do that. No matter how many years they sign DM for, he'll be seriously overpaid unless he's the best pitcher in the game. And for a pitcher, esp. one that's never pitched in MLB, that's not a smart move. If this doesn't work, what's next? It's not like they're shoring up a championship team either.

[Bob]

//Things don't end well for the teams that do that.//

Not necessarily disagreeing, Mary J. After all, the Skankees are the perfect example of your comment.

Still, wouldn't mind seeing what Mr. Gyro Ball can do. JD Drew? Fey.

[h.b.]

No matter how many years they sign DM for, he'll be seriously overpaid...

Well, until he's actually signed, we don't know that. Remember the 42 million goes to the Giants and is just to talk.

There are some who suggest DK will come in at a bargain despite Boras being his agent since it's an "honor" thing not to diss your team by rejecting a reasonable offer from an MLB and thereby preventing your Japanese team from getting the 42 mil.

Don't know if there's any validity to this, but, for now, until negotiations actually begin, it has as much credence as assuming the Red Sox will overpay.

Meanwhile, as for worried, no, this is the hot stove. It's supposed to be nutty and full of rumor and nonsense.

Just like my Wonderjocks.

[Dave S.]

Wow, HB...sounds like there's a real party going in there. Are we all invited?

[Jason O.]

It will be fun waiting for the RS ever-oscillating PR machine to label him:

(take your pick)
The Japanese Jake Peavy
The Japanese Pedro Martinez
The Japanese Johan Santana
The Japanese Jack Morris

Just like Irabu was once called the Japanese Nolan Ryan...

[Bob]

At least he couldn't possibly be as bad as the Japanese Carl Pavano.

[mary j]

Luxury tax or not, even if he signs at 3 or 4 years at 8 to 10 million, the average will be $20 million per year. That is nutty - for any pitcher - Pedro c.1999, Santana, etc. Even iff he turns oput to be better than all of them, he still isn't worth it.

The sad indication is that this is a Yankees move - but of 1989 or 2004. That organization seems to be shifting back to sensible management even as the Sox spend over $100 million on an unproved Japanese pitcher and JD Drew? Simmons is right - we're in bizarro sports world.

Maybe Henry has decided to start digging into his own pockets? Even then, we're now looking at a very different organization just months after they gave up on the season because they didn't want to spend.

[COD]

You have to offset what he's paid by the incremental revenue the Sox gain by opening up the country of Japan. I have no idea what they are forecasting, but say they make an extra $30 million on broadcast right over there, plus another $10 million in merchandising. If that happens, they may have just picked up a top of the rotation starter for Carl Pavano money.

I doubt Theo is throwing his philosophy out the door. It's much more likely that he knows a lot about this that we don't.

[h.b.]

Why is spending always deemed nutty? It's the one area where I'm truly jealous of the Yankees. Steinbrenner spends and doesn't give a fuck.

And while the characters will make fun and/or cast aspersions on the Yankees for their payroll, I've personally never felt that way my entire life. (Yeah, I may be a real minority in RSN for that sentiment, but so be it.)

If you've got it, spend it.

[h.b.]

It's much more likely that he knows a lot about this that we don't.

Oh, come on, are you saying Theo Epstein and Bill James are wiser about baseball than the fans?

Blasphemy :)

[mary j]

How big do you think the market is COD? Teams are already drawing significantly from it. You're crazy if you think it's worth $30 million.

h.b. - True, it's not the money. It's what happens to teams that think money solves everything. The moves this winter are looking like the latter. If Big Daddy Henry wants to be that kind of owner - more power to him and it's about damn time. It's just that they now have the third different philosophy in three off-seasons.

2004 = Plug and play
2005 = Younger is better
2006 = Spend if you've got it

The problem is that the results are getting worse.

[Dave S.]

IkeG made the excellent point yesterday that the Red Sox probably stand to gain considerably more than the Yankees do in terms of generating incremental revenue from Japan...the Yanks have already pretty well penetrated that market with Matsui. Shockingly, it turns out that baseball is a business after all.

[Ryan with a capital "R"]

That's right h.b., Simmons is right and Bill James + Theo are wrong. Welcome to hell.

[Jason O.]

Bob, Pavano's sheer comedic value has been almost worth the expense...

...The RS/Yankees duel for Clement and Pavano is, in hindsight, Monty Python-esque....

[Billy Mahty]

I think you all deserve to gloat big time if the Sox sign Matsuzaka. Cashman's "restraint" looks like a big f*** up to me:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=klapisch_bob&id=2653906

ESPN 11.08.06
Bob Klapisch

The Yankees want Daisuke Matsuzaka, and they're prepared to write the biggest check to secure his rights...

"This is the guy we want," one Yankees official said on Tuesday, referring to Matsuzaka. "I'm not saying we have to get him, but we'd like to...

The Yankees are believed to be ready to go as high as $20 million for the mere right to speak to Matsuzaka about a contract. It's an enormous posting fee, even by the Yankees' standards...

... the Yankees appear determined not to be outbid. "At the end of the day, they're the only ones who'll go [to $20 million]," said one insider.

[Bob]

Clement, after his head's encounter with the line drive:

"It's only a flesh wound...oh, wait...on second thought, that really messed my mind up all to hell."

[h.b.]

mary j,

I think you're simplifying and forgetting a few things the past few seasons. Schilling and Foulke were not really plug and play cheap guys but were top of the line acquisitions. They overpaid for Varitek. They vastly overpaid for Renteria. Some think they overpaid for for Beckett. So this suggests they weren't going with the A's strategy. (And don't forget Theo went batshit for Contreras who was equally as unproven as D-Mat and older.)

Meanwhile, some crazy shit happened along the way over the past two season, e.g., I don't think anyone expected Lester to get cancer, that had a major impact on how things went down.

But even if there has been some shifting from year to year in how things are done, you only need what Theo himself has said since he's been GM about needed to be flexible and evaluate any given year's market.

If your business model has no flexibility then, well, you end up like the Boston Globe, losing money each day and headed to the dustbin of history because you can't adapt.

[mary j]

If the marketshare to be gained was $40 million a year, every team would have already been there, and years ago. My guess is that maybe a team could make a few million on merchandise and maybe 5 million on TV rights. Actually, the only thing I found with a quick search was this: http://www.japan-zone.com/news/archives/2003_11.shtml (see last paragraph. And that's from 2003 but indicates that all of MLB's rights are 46 million/year which is obviously split among all teams equally.

It helps, but it's not significant, and that doesn't include the revenue spent on scouting and player development there. My guess is the team clears a few extra million a year (which justifies Matsui's contract in NY), but not much more.

[NV in SD]

"I'm looking forward to seeing just how much Boras bilks out of the Sox for the man, the 200-pitch 19-inning CG throwing myth, Mothra."

Two points of contention here, Dave (and JO):

1. Now that the Sox have allegedly set the high bid and gained exclusive bargaining rights with Matz/ Bora$$, the onus falls to Scottie to get a deal done. Daisuke is making in the neighborhood of $3-3.5 mil right now, so a reported $8-12 mil (depending on years, etc.) will be a serious pay hike for him, so he'll be pushing to get a contract signed. Seibu stands to take on $42mil of the JWH's money when a deal gets done, so they will be pushing hard for him to sign. This isn't your "typical" Boras FA where he has all prospective buyers by the nutsack and keeps squeezing tighter and tighter. He is not in a position to demand $X, but rather has to *gasp* look out for his client's best interests in this case.

2. If Georgie had dug a little deeper into his poockets, you'd be here trumpeting the arrival of the Great Mothra, the 200-pitch 19-inning CG throwing Red Sox- killer. Sour grapes much?

[mary j]

hb -

The years reference the off-season moves - i.e. after the season.

Even still, you bet they should adapt. But open the checkbook mere months after they folded on the season because they didn't open the account? In a season where an 83 win team won the title? A lesser version the same team they beat three years ago?

No, having a philosophy is one thing. Sticking to it until you die - that's the Pats.

[mary j]

hb -

The years reference the off-season moves - i.e. after the season.

Even still, you bet they should adapt. But open the checkbook mere months after they folded on the season because they didn't open the account? In a season where an 83 win team won the title? A lesser version the same team they beat three years ago?

No, having a philosophy is one thing. Sticking to it until you die - that's the Pats.

[Bob]

I believe H.B. has a one-click philosophy, Mary J. :)

[Dave S.]

NV...no sour grapes here, and I'm not a BigBri-style trumpeter of Yankeedom, so I wouldn't have gone all Marty and rubbed noses in shit. It's not my style. I'd have loved for the Yanks to have the right to negotiate, to be sure. Godzilla and Mothra on the same team? Who wouldn't want that? Hell, you might have noticed that I pointed out an article comparing Matusaka to Clemens. I think my larger points, if anything, were:

1) I am genuinely curious to see how much money, on a per year basis, Matusaka costs the Red Sox...it could easily top $20 million.

2) Loudly villifying the Yanks as drunken sailor spenders is a little suspect considering the coin shelled out to TALK to a pitcher and sign JD Drew...

I won't apologize again for the Yankees spending...it has long made me sick, and I've posted here repeatedly on how building an expensive Frankenteam is depressing. But I'm delighted to point out the hypocrisy of Red Sox fans who criticize the Yanks' spending above the din of their own team's money printing machines.

[mary j]

Sorry! All this talk of Wonderjocks has me trigger happy!

[h.b.]

The years reference the off-season moves - i.e. after the season.

Oh, right, that's why Theo broke the chair over not getting Contreras during, what was that, Memorial Day? (Couldn't have been Christmas Eve? Naw)

And, of course, we all remember the 4th of July when Epstein went to Schill's house in AZ and shot off fireworks with him while convincing him to come to pitch in Fenway.

Just busting balls... these Wonderjocks make me randy.

[h.b.]

Just in general re Dave's comment above which wasn't aimed at me but made me think of this...

FWIW I'm never bothered by the hypocrite label. We all are hypocrites in one form or another, and, really, there are far worse things than being a hypocrite.

Seriously, I'd like to introduce more hypocrisy into my life.

[Dave S.]

The beauty of your goal, HB, is that it's so easy to do. One simple way is to pick a vice (always fun), and then rail against it (quite a righteous feeling, really). Better yet, actually be high while you put that DARE bumper sticker on your car.

[h.b.]

Better yet, actually be high while you put that DARE bumper sticker on your car.

Beautiful! LOL.

[Jason O.]

Not so, NV: If the Yankees had the high bid, I would be worried about how this guy will perform in the bigs...just like with Matsui.

If the Yankees had bid $42m, my concerns would be greatly increased, i.e., will DM be the Japanese Josh Beckett?

[NV in SD]

"1) I am genuinely curious to see how much money, on a per year basis, Matusaka costs the Red Sox...it could easily top $20 million."

As am I but, as Mike pointed out above, "...it's not (my) money, so no need to fret." Especially considering the FO is going to shell out similar $$$ to get Clemens for his "final" year...

"2) Loudly villifying the Yanks as drunken sailor spenders is a little suspect considering the coin shelled out to TALK to a pitcher and sign JD Drew..."

Fact(s) of the matter, Dave-

The MFY have shelled out over a billion dollars in the past six seasons for one WS appearance, a few early exits, and a momentous choke job (but we all know about that one)- they are the drunkest of drunken sailors. Sure the Sox have been #2 behind them, but in the grand scheme of things, they haven't even sniffed close to the $1 bil mark.

The Sox are just talking to Seibu- they don't sign a deal, they haven't spent a dime- no blood no foul there. JD drew is as much on the Sox as Slappy was in December of '03. No counting those chickens yet.

[h.b.]

Just noting that on Oct 25th Jason O made the following comment:

DM will likely be in pinstripes.

[buckner was framed]

'Seriously, I'd like to introduce more hypocrisy into my life.'
Are we still talkin Wonderjocks?