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Different strokes for...

Mike:
Didya watch the homah derby?

 

Doug:
Naw, I totally take the Manny approach to the All Star Game festivities. It's a chance to take a break and chill a bit in anticipation of the serious half of the season.

 


Doug:
Whatevah. Buckley also can't help but impugn the fans' intelligence either when he writes, "The Sox are going to get away with this because their millions of fans will believe the bit about getting poor Manny healthy for the stretch run."

 

Doug:
Well, Steve boyo, here's one of the millions who doesn't give two shits whethah Manny's knee is truly hurting or not. Wait, let me rephrase that: I certainly hope Manny's knee it not hurting and this is just a ruse to get out of attending.

 

Doug:
Call me selfish, call me myopic, call me a Shirley, but I want a rested Manny for the 2nd half.

 

Mike:
But what about the millions of baseball fans who went through the trouble to vote for Manny?

 

Doug:
Oh, right, all that one minute of mouse clicking of radio buttons. What a grave injustice. Perhaps the fans who feel so put upon should go on a rolling hungah strike in protest?

 

Mike:
Hey, all I know is Ted Williams took the All Stah Game seriously and what's good enough for Teddy Baseball is good enough for me.

 

Doug:
Yeah, and how many World Series rings did Ted Williams have?

 

Mike:
Whoa, dude, don't make me go over there and go all Zidane on your ass. Nobody messes with The Greatest Hitter That Evah Lived. Seriously. I'm not playing.

 

Doug:
Hey, I'm just busting balls. You can stop pointing your forehead at me. But, all kidding aside, my point is why isn't it enough to be a Red Sox fan? Why should I have to apologize for not caring about the All Stah Game, for not caring about the World Baseball Classic?

 

Doug:
I mean do we all have to be little George Will and Bart Giamatti clones walking around speaking in hushed, reverential toens about the beauty of the game and the noblest expressions of leisure and freedom and all that?

 

Mike:
Well, I think there's something to be said for looking at the game of baseball as part of our collective artistic and creative impulse. Sure I do.

 

Doug:
Yeah, well, I think there's something to be said for winning pennants. And while the All Star game may have meant something in the 40s, let's just say a lot of things meant something in the 40s that generally don't mean shit today, unfortunately, like being a patriotic war hero for one. I'm just sayin', that's all.

 

Comments

Though a Yankee fan, this conversation essentially sums up my inner monologue regarding the All-Star game, although I must admit that I'm not nearly so witty. If I were a Red Sox fan, I'd be very happy for Manny to sit. I'd much rather that Jeter and Rivera didn't go. The idea of Rivera pitching even one extra inning in an exhibition rubs me the wrong way. And yet, I'm happy for Cano. If I were a Sox fan, I'd want to see Papelbon. Maybe for me it's the younger stars who I'd like to see, as much for their sake. Manny's a Hall of Famer. So's Rivera. We all know that...we don't need to see them take two at-bats in an extended football halftime extravaganza to know this. Perhaps if the festivities were less bombastic, a little more dignified, I'd really consider it the Midsummer Classic, as opposed to the Midsummer Nextel Car-Commercial Confetti-thon.

I can't wait to say to someone today: "Don't make me point my head at you."

Just once, I would like a Yankee fan to not reference his/her psychopathic disability when making a comment. Is that too much to ask? It is?
Enjoy the three days off, more poetry to come.
Self-absorption, thy name is MFY.

lc

hb, I thought baseball prospectus says that Barry Bonds is the greatest hitter of all time...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh, Jeez, sometimes I kill myself...(wiping eyes)

Listen up fuckfaces, it's either Babe Ruth or Ted Williams and as a Yankees fan I'm even willing to lean toward Ted because he was so honorable and selfless that he fought 2x for this country.

There are things that transcend any rivalry.

I'm a Sox fan, and I DON'T want to see Papelbon pitch. If he'd had a week off, sure, but not now. Thankfully, he won't be pitching.

Fantastic commentary at bsmw.com about Manny and the press: Manny Ramirez - Reality vs. Perception. Should be required reading:

http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/

JO -

I think BPro's a little shy on making that claim, simply because the era comparisons are difficult. Here's one brief one:

Ted Williams:
Has a .364 EqA, 171 WARP3 (wins above replacement, adjusted for all-time) in 2300 games (missing his age 24, 25, 26 seasons, and most of his age 33/34)

Ruth:
EqA of .366, WARP3 of 235.4 in 2500 games

Bonds:
Lifetime .354 EqA, 231.8 WARP3 in 2800 games (including 33+ wins during his age 24/25/26 seasons)

Since WARP is cumulative over a season and career, it's nearly impossible to say things like "best" according to the BPro guys.

However, I would agree with your rationale, especially considering the 'external circumstances'.

the comeback re ted shouldn't be about WS rings...should be about the fact that buckley, had he been writing at the time, would've dogged ted like any of the other "knights of the keyboard" did throughout his career.

Steve Phillips said something intelligent on Baseball Tonight, and since it happens so rarely, I'll paraphrase:

"I love the All Star Game. I love watching everybody else's players play, but I'm rather mine stayed home."

Screw Buckley. As I said before, the Herald staff are continuing the "Write like CHB" contest and will for the foreseeable future.

What I find funny is the "debate" about who was better: Joe Dimaggio or Ted Williams. I mean, props to Joe D. and all, but if they were both WW II dictators, Teddy Ballgame is Joseph Stalin, and Joe D. is Moussilini.

Personally, I give Ted Williams best hitter in the history of the game, and Ruth best player in the history of the game. His career pitching line is pretty okay, I guess:

94-46, 2.28 ERA, 107 CGs in 163 games started.

Williams might also win Biggest Badass in the history of the game for his service time. His WWII time was sandwiched by these lines:

1942: .356/.499/.648 in 150 games
1946: .342/.497/.667 in 150 games

That's one Badass Sandwich.

It's not quite a Nobel Prize, but it is an honor to be chosen by the fans and to not deem it worth your time is a bit ostentatious.

He didn't *have* to start or even play the game. He could have simply stood and waved and then sat on the bench and laughed it up with fellow AL players. Instead, he decided that if he's not going to play, then he might as well not show.

I think that's fine too in the end. They all have a right not to show, I guess. The problem is that we don't learn this kind of news early enough to put in someone else more willing to play in the game for us, the fans. How about these All-Scoffers give us their names before we fill out the ballots? Or how about MLB own up to the fact that they know this is going to happen year after year and end ballotting early enough that we can get some responses from players and fill in the gaps with new votes?

Either way, since even "now that it matters" it still doesn't matter...let's just get back to some real baseball. Thanks.

But, you don't understand, this is for home field advantage in the World Series! Doesn't that stir up all your ire towards the Senior Leaguers?

Shouldn't Manny give up the chance to hang out with people he likes instead of reporters just so when the Sox make it to the Series we know he did his part so we get 4 games at Fenway?

How bout bunting? Don't you just dig the bunting? The roster introductions? The double switches?

The All-Star Game is fun but I don't care if I miss it. Besides, this year it's in a place we Browns fans call Shittsburgh. Who gives a rat's ass?

Get your rest Manny. See you on the flipside.

I would admonish the Red Sox for LETTING Varitek play in the WBC. Tek was out of gas at the end of last season and playing in that BS tournament did him no good.

WTF does Buckley want? Players going "all out" like that that a-hole Rose in the All-Star Game. Rose's collision at home plate ended a player's career during that "meaningless" contest.

It's worth risking a career ending injury to uphold the honor of Century 21?

//Besides, this year it's in a place we Browns fans call Shittsburgh. Who gives a rat's ass?//

I tend to agree with Logan's Mom. Although I have only been to Shittburgh once, it was only a couple years ago, well after the supposed "renaissance" of the city.

If that's a renaissance, Pittsburgh's Botticelli would paint Venus emerging from a septic tank.

Two corrections, Bob.

I think tessie is Logan's grandma. I could be wrong, but I thought I was corrected on that before.

Second, though, is that I think it would be wrong to congratulate or excuse people from not going to the All-Star Game because of the city. That's just heavily disrespectful. What if they decided to come to Boston and we dropped half of the Big Dig on a few players? I mean, have you been down to Atlantic Ave lately? If we're talking septic, at least with the highway there, you had a good visual reason for why the place looked like a wreck...now it's just a playground of construction equipment and nobody can beautify their previously hereto-facing-the-REAL-green-monster building fronts.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on Boston. I love this town like I still love my original hometown of Baltimore. I'm just saying that there's nothing so wrong with Pittsburgh that it should be some kind of "free pass" from showing up for the game.

They play baseball in Pittsburgh.

Dave S. just voluntarily attempted to tarnish the reputation of Joseph Paul DiMaggio.

The Yankee Clipper.

I don't care what point he was trying to make: He's not a Yankees fan. He just plays one on this comment board.

Buckley. What an asswipe. Stupid column from a stupid and apparently bitter man.

Ted Williams was also, by many accounts, an ace fighter pilot, came under fire in two wars, survived being shot down and was John Glenn's wingman. Very cool. He led as big a life as any man, in baseball or out. I well remember the All Star game at Fenway in 1999 (oddly enough I watched at a bar in Little Italy on a business trip) when Ted was surrounded by the best hitters in the game at the time. Goosebumps.

I like to watch the midsummer exhibition because 1 - it's still baseball, 2 - I get to see players I might not otherwise, and 3 - every now and then, something historic happens.

Kaz, I don't think I can explain it to you in terms you'd understand. You understand the rivalty thing, I'm sure, but this is between two football cities. In my mind, everything about that place, even its baseball teams' colors, says Squeelers. I know if I ever went there I'd end up dead or in jail. I don't want to see it all sparkly and inviting for national TV when I know its my Waterloo.

Oh, and you're right, I'm Logan's granny.

Bob, the term Pittsburgh's Boticelli is just not sinking in but the image of the toothless tart covered with black and piss yellow tattoos emerging shoeless from some rusted septic tank has made an impression. :)

Oh come off it, Jason. I merely wanted to illustrate just how good I think Williams is; it takes a silly rose-glassed historian like yourself to construe my words into reputation tarnishing. Did you ever see him play? Or are you just looking at slo mo of him on YES and getting all teary eyed? I mean what, you're not a REAL Yankee fan if you suggest that one of the all-time Yankee greats is actually overrated by Yankee fans, many of whom, and I'd love to hear you say it, believe that there's a real debate regarding his ability and that of Ted Williams? I'm going to say things like: Derek Jeter really isn't that good defensively. And: to highlight just how good I think Ted Williams was, I'm going to say that he was significantly better than one of my favorite Yankees, Joe Dimaggio. I'm not a partisan liar. Next thing, you'll start talking about who's a "real" Yankee and who isn't. Pish posh.

Kaz, I wasn't commenting on whether players should avoid the All Star. Game because of the city it's in. I think players should go no matter where it's held (unless he has a knee injury of course.)

My comment was purely personal. I think Pittsburgh keeps getting all this "amazing renaissance" hype, but from what I saw, it's still pretty crappy.

Dave I can't understand why you'd try to defend yourself here. Is it because you care what Jason thinks of you or that we Red Sox fans will think less of you? Don't worry about that....

Two Yankee fans bickering over Joe DiMaggio on a Red Sox site?

One thing I never would have imagined ever taking place is infighting between Yankees fans in the Soxaholix comments.

Gives new meaning to the phrase "I don't have a dog in this fight."

tessie, don't worry about me. The Steelers kept the 2002 Ravens from playing the Patriots. It looked like the greatest showdown (where I win regardless of the winning team)...but it was ruined by Pittsburgh.

There have been plenty of in-season football games between the Stealers and the Ravens where I've threatened to toss my computer across the room if I had to hear another internet radio Myron Cope "Double Yoi" from that homer announcer that started the Terrible Towel crap.

The Stealers are just pure evil and I hope they have a Rothlisberger tribute game to start the season where they don't wear any helmets and the whole team goes on the IL.

But I can hate a team, its announcers, or its fans without any real hate for the city. NYC isn't such a bad place, either...but the Yankees and most of their fans are scum in the toilet bowl.

No problem, Bob. Slight misunderstanding I guess. I am a little bit of an American history buff and Pittsburgh had its role in the expansion of the Industrial Revolution and subsequent labor/union struggles.

There aren't too many cities that don't have *something* going for them when it comes to history, culture, etc. It's an intrinsic result of being such a populus center of mass in a country founded on immigrant populi.

I also know some co-workers/collaborators who have chosen Pittsburgh as their new home because of the huge surge in biotech that Pittsburgh is trying to build upon. So there probably is more to the current Renaissance that may not shine through the muck that remains to be cleaned.

Nah, Tessie. It's the principle. I don't really give a rat's ass either way.

That's really an interesting point about how dislike for a city's team can influence your perception of the city.

You're right, NYC is a one of kind place, but it's really difficult for me to seperate the city from the Yankees.

And it works the other way, too, as, this year in particular, I kind of like Tampa Bay, but the fact that they play in the awful park just makes me wince.

Felt the same way about the Astros when they were in the Astrodome.

It's funny, too, how with places I've never actually visited, I base my like/dislike of the city entirely on my feelings toward their sports teams.

Dave, the question was Ted Williams vs. Babe Ruth, who are clearly the two best hitters in baseball history.

It's as if the debate was between which model of top-fuel dragster was the best...and then you said that dragster A is certainly better than a 1937 Duesenberg V-12. Not only was it a non-sequitur, the Duesenberg is in its own class of style and sophistication, rather than raw performance.

Just as Joltin' Joe is in his own class.

But if you were a Yankees fan you would have known that the comparison was unnecessary and unfounded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Junius_Brutus

I understand HB. I've never been to South Bend, IN, but I am absolutely certain that the entire town is a cesspool :)

Going back to our discussions on uniforms...I found this Page 2 story today mildly amusing:

What your jersey says about you

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