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Bring on the kid lefty

Mike:
Let's hear it for the old guys, Schilling and the Cap'n salvage the series on with an awesome game.

 

Bill:
Yeah, and what a perfect place for that twosome to bring it on. Are there any two Red Sox who elicit as much revulsion by Yankees fans than Schill and Tek?

 

Mike:
Yeah, it doesn't erase the memory of the first two games or the fact that we trail the Yankees in the standings, but it sure as hell helps.

 

Bill:
You know what also helps? A-Rod was 0-for-4 in the game, 1-for-11 in the series.

 

Mike:
Loving it. And how cool is it that Schilling insists he still doesn't feel comfortable on the mound yet the Sox are 11-2 in games he stahts?

 

Bill:
I love Schilling. He's got that "it" factah, you know? Even when he's not 100%, you know he's going to chew the tinfoil and do his damndest to take it to the hittahs.

 

Mike:
That's what Pedro had, too. Remember that playoff game against the Indians in 9'9 when Petey was all half-dead from the flu but came in as a relievah and no-hit the Tribe for 6 innings?

 

Bill:
One of the gutsiest athletic performances I've evah witnessed and it rivals the "bloody sock" game for all-time Red Sox pitching feats.

 

Mike:
Man, I miss Petey.

 

Bill:
Well, I miss the 1999 version of Pedro and the current Mets remix of Pedro, but the sullen, bitchy, mango tree branch up his ass "the Yankees are my Daddy" version? Not so much.

 


Bill:
I think that's bullshit revisionist history, personally. I don't mean that, yeah, it would have been way better, in hindsight to lock up Pedro before 2004, but I don't buy the "took care of Schilling" angle as some quid pro quo negative.

 

Bill:
Has Simmons forgotten 2003? We had to have a front line starter like Schilling to augment the staff. Especially with Pedro's ongoing shoulder issues and the ubiquitous time on the DL.

 

Mike:
Still feels like a bad divorce to me.

 

Bill:
Yeah, well, extending the metaphor, hopefully Jon Lester, the most celebrated left hand prospect since Bruce Hurst, will become the new trophy wife and you can forget all about your ex Petey.

 

Mike:
Not too much pressure on the rookie, eh?

 

Comments

Actual quote from the Yankee fan wearing his new Damon shirt in front of me at the game:
"How far away from Boston is New England?"

That's sums it up, although my tolerance for Pedro exceeds most of that of RSN. Just as Manny is a problem, he is also a savant. I will watch every Manny at-bat to the exclusion of all else when I have the chance. Those guys are pure baseball players--baggage, yes, but more game than ARod on his best day (that would probably be a game in May-- pick a year-- against the Royals).

btw, did NomarRod call the Official Scorer and have that AGon ground ball changed from an error to a double? Of course he did.

More sogginess at Fenway with The Noah's Ark Rangers, I fear, this weekend. But with Wasdin in long relief, the boys could get fat in a hurry.

lc

Hey, did anyone have a response to the kid with the "how far..." question?

Nice t-shirt Mike's wearing today! Need me one of them, and what a coincidence that Fathers' Day is coming up. Hmm. Think I'll send a URL to the kiddies.

Nice win last night, but what a screwy line for Schill. Four hits over 8 innings, ninty something pitches, three of those hits for solo HR's. Weird.

Totally agree with you HB - the whole negative quid pro quo thing on Simmons column with bringing Schill on board was stupid pandering. But I'll admit I miss Uncle Petey, too. Simmons even made a convincing case for fondly remembering Nomah, although I'm not feeling it to the extent he seems to be.

On to face the Texa$$ squad which got beat up by the lowly Royals last night, coming from down 11-4 to win. A nice sweep at home would make me happy.

Here's the definitive answer from GooglismL:


"Sorry, Google doesn't know enough about how far away from boston is new england"

I truly fear the baseball gods. I thought they could only control the games themselves, not the weather, save for the occasional gust of wind making a foul ball go fair. But now we have seen them bring us rain, resulting in a 5-5 W-L record against the Yankees. We'll have to wait a couple of months before the two meet again.

Good job by the battery, and welcome back to the game, bats!

Ahh last nights game was a gem. I love watching our "role player" guys step when it counts(Varitek and Gonzales with clutch hits)... Im gonna be smug all day thinking that Simmons commentary came from my pointer yesterday, which it most certainly didn't but it still feels good. I was so happy after last nights game I stayed up late to watch the mostly unwatchable "For the Love of the Game" with Kevin Costner on cable.

Personally, I was put into a state of shock from the sheer stupidity New England question rendering me unable to answer. My buddy managed to inform him that New England actually consisted of all the states around Boston. Then we spent the rest of the evening mocking him to ourselves. Hey, if I’m in the Bronx, and I want to go to New York City, which road would I take?

I'm gonna be smug all day thinking that Simmons commentary came from my pointer yesterday, which it most certainly didn't but it still feels good.

Your smugness is valid. While I had read the Simmmons piece before you posted the link, your link reminded me to try and work it into a strip.

Congrats to your team on last night's win.

With Francona's June 8th lineup we now have "control group" evidence that Torre's unfathomable behavior may not be Torre-specific: There may actually be strange radiation in New York that effects managers: Exhibit A: Youkilis, .430 OBP, hitting 8th.

More time in New York and Francona may have requested picking up Terrence Long from waivers.

J.O. - Maybe that explains Grady's decision to leave Pedro in for the 8th back in Oct. 2003.

Nah. Grady's just an asshole.

I don't hate Varitek a bit. I hate when he hits home runs against the Yanks, of course, but he's the kind of player everyone wants to have on his team. Though his best playing days are likely behind him, he's a great captain.

Schilling, on the other hand, is as big an asshole as you're going to find in any walk of life, and I've hated him since he was with the Phillies. Blowhard, kill-em-all/culture-of-life conundrum conservative jackass. Great pitcher, sure, cap tip to his abilities and guts on the mound. But he's a bucket of slime in my book. His being a Red Sox pitcher has nothing to do with it. And da Nile's just a river in Egypt, too.

I thought Pedro in '99 in the cleveland series was slowed up by a back injury, not the flu. No matter, it was a great, career-defining mofo moment and one of the highlights of Red Sox history.

I would love to have Pedro back on the team, and was sorry the day he left, but his departure was inevitable, the same as it was with Nomar and even Mo Vaughn (although losing Mo was actually a blessing, given the way his career turned out).
There was just too much baggage, too much hostility, too much pettiness on both sides for Pedro to hang around Boston. Throw in someone like Shank Shaunessy fanning the flames by calling Pedro a prima donna, etc. and its no wonder he took the Mets offer.
He's gone and ain't coming back, but I'll always cheer for Petey, no matter where he ends up (as long as it isn't the MFY), and remember the magic he carried with him whenever he took the mound.

Something tells me if Schilling were with the Yankees you'd find a way to deal with his conservative, born-again Christian personality.


Simmons is wrong. We ended up pushing the greatest pitcher in franchise history out the door back in 1996.

You're right. The back was hurting in 1999's ALDS.

It was the 2000 gem against Clemens when he was nearly dead from flu.

One of the best games I ever went to at Yankee Stadium was this one:

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B05280NYA2000.htm

This was the Clemens/Martinez duel in which both threw complete games, and Nixon broke up Clemen's shutout bid in the 9th with a two run shot to right-center. Clemens K'd 13, Pedro 9. It was just a great, great game.

I've always appreciated Pedro's artistry on the mound. He even had it when he threw real smoke, 97+ on the radar gun. He's always been a real pitcher, in addition to his outstanding stuff. There aren't too many of them around. Pedro, Maddux, Mussina, these guys are real artists.

I'm glad that Pedro's pitching for the Mets for two reasons...first, I can watch his games here all the time, and second, he isn't pitching for the Sox anymore.

I actually thought the Sox made a more than fair bid for Pedro's services. I was curious, though, that they were willing to shell out as much for Wells as they did, and yet not go that extra yard for such a Boston icon.

Hey HB...was it the part where I said that da Nile wasn't just a river in Egypt ;)? I've NEVER liked any Yankee who was an asshole. Not me, nope!

I always like to tell people from out of town that the 5 New England states are Cape Cod, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Nantucket and Maine...

Always good for a laugh when they actually believe you.

I also love asking the clowns in the tollbooths coming out of Logan how to get to the bridge to Martha's Vineyard.

Yes I am easily amused.

Actually, I think Pedro didn't really want to come back. Sure, he wasn't exactly ecstatic with what turned out to be the Sox's final offer, but the way he...
1) let everyone think he'd re-sign and then suddenly he was Met
2) talked pretty openly at first about wanting to leave Boston, then implied later that he loved Boston and never wanted to leave
... seemed to me to be a way of saying "I didn't want to come back but I wanted you to think I did". I think he was thinking "OK, mission accomplished, we won the WS, time to move on". Not that he would have turned down the moon and the stars had the Sox offered them, but given similar offers from both teams he was inclined to go to the Mets.

In Francona's defense regarding Youkilis batting 8th, many managers like to put good on-base guys late in the order to set up for the top of the order. I can't imagine anything more frustrating for a tiring pitcher than to not be able to retire the 7-8-9 hitters in the 5th or 6th inning and to have to pitch to the top of the order again.

On the other hand, the not going the extra for Pedro has to be considered in the following light.

Pedro spent a lot of time telling everyone he didn't have it anymore. Things like "I'm not the ace, he's the ace." And "the old Pedro Martinez is gone. I don't know who he is." (Paraphrasing on that last one but it was when he was doing the whole "I'm lost in Wonderland" bit.)

Then there was the whole "I can't beat the Yankees" self-flagellation.

I mean, sure, Pedro talks a lot of trash and this was just more of it.

But if I go around my office for days and months saying "I'm not really as good as I used to be," and "on certain types of projects, I'm going to fail," and my boss hears that, should I then be surprised when it's time for my annual review and I don't get the big raise I was expecting?

Just because some kid says it doesn't mean that most Yanks fans don't know how to get from Boston to New England.

I don't think most Bostonians would like New England though. I heard that everyone there reads YANKEE magazine.

I'm not with Dave S. about Tek. Schilling and Tek are the most reviled in my book. My friends and I aways joke that Varitek wears the 'C' to remind himself what position he plays. That one never gets old.

I actually kind of like Manny and Ortiz. Timlin's alright. I haven't seen Papelbon much but I like the fact that he's young and could be legit. I couldn't stand Bellhorn - that one hurt last year.

Something tells me if Schilling were with the Yankees you'd find a way to deal with his conservative, born-again Christian personality.,/i>

My first to reaction to this (as a Yankee fan, not as the person you addressed) is that you're wrong, but when I step back and think about it, you're right.. to a point. I would have put up with it until he was out campaigning for Bush and coming out against his own hometown's son. My passion about politics exceeds my passion for the GBYs. I lay some small blame on Bush's reelection on Schill. And he deserves that blame, because if he wasn't trying to have an effect, what was he doing?

I agree with h.b.'s points about Pedro. I was thinking the same thing. He was coming out saying the Yankees are his daddy - not really what his boss wanted to hear. Still, it would have been a tough call whether to let him go or not.

whoops sorry.

This is so yesterday's news, but I'm following up on a post I made yesterday where I said that five current Red Sox have been on the same team as Grimsley.

The same holds true for the Yanks, one being Kelly Stinnet, and the others of course being career Yanks Mo, Bernie, Posada, and Jeter.

Only two of the champion '04 Sox were one-degree from Grimsley, former Cleveland mates Manny and Embree.

Dave, you appear to be a pretty smart guy...the fact that you perceive a substantial difference between national candidates for office is surprising.

Conservatives routinely want to violate constitutional protections in the name of certain things, and liberals want to do it in the name of other things...the effect is the same on the average person.

Oh boy, here we go. h.b. pull the eject button....

C'mon guys!! Let's not get overly sentimental about Pedro. Sure, he did great things during his time with the Sox, but let's not forget his "ubiquitous time on the DL". Dude's arm is about shot and Nike had to make him some illegal shoe to help relieve the pain of an ingrown toe nail. If you continue down this maudlin path, you're going to start reliving The Glory Days of Bronson Arroyo and Derek Lowe, and I just couldn't stomach that.

Oh, Jason, I couldn't agree more...I didn't mean to make implicit in my criticism of Schilling's personality support for anyone else. I have little respect for either of our current major political parties. I tend to vote Democrat, but hold my nose while doing so...sorry all, my bad for introducing any political element to the discussion...

"Are there any two Red Sox who elicit as much revulsion by Yankees fans than Schill and Tek?"

Yeah... DAVID ORTIZ. As a Sox fan in NYC, I have some first hand experiance watching Yankees fans GO CRAZY at every at-bat Papi has. Is a combo of hate and fear... good stuff.

Jason, you seem like a pretty smart guy too. I'm surprised that you don't see an unnecessary war in Iraq, deflation of our Treasury via abolishing the estate tax while spending profusely, walking away from Kyoto and refusing to address global warming, condoning and encouraging torture, attempting to eliminate a woman's right to choose, pandering to bigots who hate gays and immigrants (I could go on) as substantial differences from what you would see during a Gore or a Kerry (or a Clinton) administration. Hey, it may be all the same to you. As for me, I don't think the Democrats are perfect by a long-shot, but I much prefer their agenda to the Republicans'.

" stayed up late to watch the mostly unwatchable "For the Love of the Game" with Kevin Costner on cable."

but isn't Billy Chapel the perfect name for an aging ace?

Hey, Coffee. Don't be knocking on my guy Arroyo. Dude has been great on a resurgent Reds team this year. Hell, he had more homers the first three weeks of April than that fat-headed, steroid using, media hating, nose-picking, miscreant B. Bonds.

I, for one, wouldn't mind having his arm on the staff again.

As for Schilling supposedly helping Bush win, let's remember some of John Kerry's own problems related to the Red Sox:

1) His inability to reach the mound with the ceremonial opening pitch at Fenway. (Please contrast with Bush throwing a solid strike at Yankee Stadium after 9/11.)

2) His claiming to be a devout Red Sox fan when it was obvious he wasn't by several brain dead utterances he made, the best, of course, being "Manny Ortez."

3) Just how ridiculous he looked in a Red Sox cap drinking a beer in his hotel room while "glued to the TV" to watch the playoffs.

Now I'm not saying at all that a candidate for any office should be a Red Sox fan or be able to throw a baseball well etc.

Just don't pander. Have the balls to say, "Sorry, I don't much like baseball" and deal with it.

And, if your campaign staffers know you throw a baseball like a sissy, they really should know better than trot you out there in front of 35,000 fans at Fenway especially when your candidate is already facing charges from the oppositon of being "an effete, French loving aritocrast" or whatever they were saying back then.

Or at the very least, spend 30 minutes practicing. Kerry's a fit, athletic guy. No reason he shouldn't be able to reach the mound with out one hopping it.

The devil is in the details and all that.


Sorry Rob in CT...I didn't mean to malign Arroyo. I just don't EVER want to sit here and wax poetic on his cornrows and "Covering The Bases." Besides, he's doing much better for himself in Cincy (obv.)

As for the nose-picking tendencies of Barry Bonds...ugh.

Billy, your list contains a few valid complaints of the Bush admin, but your casual concession that Democrats are not "perfect" makes your criticisms of Bush seem hypocritical and difficult to take seriously...you honestly believe that any given Democratic President will advance budgets that are less "profligate" than Bush's?...(chortle, guffaw.)

You mention abortion...like Republicans, Dems only champion the "rights" of their respective interest groups/political constituencies.

Unnecessary war: 50,000 Americans dead in Southeast Asia ring a bell? Kennedy kicks it off by overthrowing Diem and Johnson stepped on the gas pedal...

My point obviously not to defend Bush, Billy, so don't get your next salvo of "here's why Bush sucks" ready, b/c you'd be surprised how much I agree.

Nicharchus observes a Roman district politican speaking in the 1st century and asks: "I was not sure if he had farted or if he was still speaking?"

The Pedro nostalgia sort of reminds of when people who are older than me start to remember how great the 50s and 60s were while also forgetting the Cold War, the draft(s), the Cuban Missile Crisis, race riots, and segregated schools. Sure, the music was terrific, but things weren't all peaches and cream. I loved Pedro. I miss watching him pitch. But, there's a lot I don't miss. I didn't like him saying that the Yankees were his daddy; you don't feed the trolls. While it's completely and totally Grady's fault for not taking him out, Pedro was done. Yes, athlete's ego, blah, blah, blah. He didn't allow himself to be taken and then didn't get it done. No one would have really cared about Grady's decision if he had gotten those outs.

Curt Schilling and GWB? I just do my best to ignore it. He's done enough for me as Sox fan that I can let a lot else slide. It's not as if Massachuetts was a battleground state.

How far is Boston from New England? Either 50 years or 50 miles, take your pick :) Which reminds me of the "man on the street" interviews that Hartford's network affliates did in Boston when the Patriots had announced they were moving, and more than one Bostonian said, unironically, that Hartford wasn't even in New England. (And hey, Hartford was actually settled first -- 1623 vs. 1630.)

I've always tried to keep my opinion of an athete's or celebrity's politics separate from my assessment of their performance of their job. For instance: I often wonder just what crime against karma our country committed in order to justify punishment by generation after generation of the vile Bush clan, and I think Schilling is a complete asshat for stumping for DubYa. However, that won't stop me for rooting like crazy for him every time he takes the mound.

(On the flip side, while I may agree with Bruce Springsteen's politics, that fact certainly wouldn't cause to me to buy any of his crappy albums.)

On another topic: I probably missed the explanation of this (or maybe I did ask and forgot the answer) but what does "GBY" stand for?

Great point about the way nostalgia can warp the reality of the past.

I feel much the same way when well meaning types bemoan the "loss of the mom and pop stores."

Anyone old enough to remember these so-called mom and pop stores will remember that they mostly, er, sucked with regard to selection, price, up-to-date products etc.

Weird how Schilling gets singled out as a conservative when most the white, US native ball players are as well.

As are most of the owners. John Henry et al as staunch Dems are the anomaly in that regard.

And why do things have to be so bellicose these days with those who hold a different view?


h.b., I just think it's one of those things that cycles up and down. It seemed like Bush I and Clinton's early years were relatively calm, to me anyway, and partisan differences mattered a little less, maybe (before that, I can't claim to any sort of real awareness on the subject). Coming out of that, into Clinton's problems and then the Bush II years, it seems as if there are more things and more "important" things that you have to take a stand on, one way or the other. It's tough to be wishy-washy about the Iraq war. But Clinton's national health care plan? Easy to say, "eh." And the first Gulf War I was easy to support, too. Iraq had invaded another country. We had a clearly defined goal, and we stuck to it.

One of the things that I got from reading Steinbeck's Travel's with Charley was that the country was also deeply divided (the scene about integrating a school (was it in New Orleans?) was particularly chilling) in 1960. The Kennedy-Nixon election bore that out.

A rivalry seems most intense when both sides think they have a chance for victory. Which, I guess, brings this post back around to baseball, because, dang, it was great to see Schilling pitch eight innings and not top 100 pitches.

I think Schill gets singled out because he is about the only one that draws attention to the fact. I don't care what a celebrities political opinions are. What offends me is the way the media in this country makes a big deal out their opinions. As we've seen over and over, MLB players union members are not the sharpest tools in the shed. (same goes for the screen actors guild and all the rest). The fact that they are rich and famous should not cause the media to act like their political opinions are more valid that your buddy Joe at the corner pub.

I think too a lot of people just get so caught up in the "group think" and get their self-worth, self-identity from the movement. So everything gets really personal.

I'm pretty much scared off by that stuff whether its sport or politics.

Which is why despite the fact that I do this website, I don't much personally get into most of the Red Sox fan mob behavior. When I go to a game, I watch the game intently. I don't scream obsenities, I don't join in "Yankees Suck" chants etc.

I'd never be the face painting type. Heck, I don't even really like wearing too much Red Sox branded stuff tending to feel more comfortable with minor league logos/branding if anything.

And even if a particular political party represented my beliefs 100%, I would not be going to the conventions or putting up lawn signs or bumper stickers or going all red in the face arguing the anyone who doesn't believe just the way I do is stupid.

Speaking of yelling "Yankees Suck!," how much fun is it to hear Yankee fans chant, "Boston Sucks!"? I can't explain why, but I do love it, at least I did last night. I guess it could be due to the fact that chanting "1918" isn't an option any more.

your casual concession that Democrats are not "perfect"

I'm man enough to admit that I'm not perfect, nobody's perfect. If that delegitimizes anything I say, then it's no use saying anything.

I'm not going to give a laundry list response, but I want to make clear that I agree with this: "Dems only champion the "rights" of their respective interest groups/political constituencies." And that's fine with me. I see the Democrats position as far morally superior to the Republicans. Vietnam was an atrocity. Clinton had his problems, so do all politicians, but in general the Democrats are working to try to make the world a better place and they do far less damage than the Republicans do.

On a related note, I hated seeing Bush throw out that pitch after 9/11 because it seemed like political opportunism, and I hated seeing that clip used at the RNC, but I know that comes from the "they can do no right by me" part of my brain.

And now, for a break from "Meet The Press," a great photo for all those Skankee fans who treat Danny Almonte as an honorary member of that blighted club:

http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/sports_blog/blog/

I really liked seeing Bush throw that strike.

I really liked seeing Clinton playing saxaphone for Boris Yeltsin.

I dug Bush 1's "wouldn't be prudent" stuff.

I thought Reagan's "Mr Gorbachev, tear down that wall" was awesome.

I though Jimmy Carter's heart was in the right place.

What I'm saying is I'm old school in that I still am "naive" enough to think being POTUS deserves my respect and a certain amount of awe.

But you know I also get weepy when I hear the National Anthem or see the flag go by in a parade or a flight of F-16s in formation.

Yeah, and I had a big smile on my face yesterday when the news came about Zarfucki.

And the smile would have been just as large had Kerry been in office.


As someone who was born in the Truman Administration (!?), The 50's and 60's sucked. It was a scary time. Just ask the coloreds.

lc

//In Francona's defense regarding Youkilis batting 8th, many managers like to put good on-base guys late in the order to set up for the top of the order.//

Yes, and Billy Mueller says hello.

As for Schilling, I totally disagree with him politically, and I will defend to the death his right to speak. Just because you're a celebrity doesn't mean you lose the right to speak your mind.

Yeah, and I had a big smile on my face yesterday when the news came about Zarfucki.

I don't think you'll get an argument on that point from anyone, H.B.

Regardless of how many of us feel about our government's justifications (or lack thereof) for invading Iraq, the death of an evil shit who represented a danger to our troops is a good thing.

If I were manager:
Against righties:

1 Kevin Youkilis (R) - incredible .431 OBP.
2 Trot Nixon (L)- .421 OBP, can handle the bat, can move runners up naturally by pulling the ball.
3 Manny Ramirez (R)- best hitter on team, .437 OBP.
4 David Ortiz (L)- not a great .365 OBP, mostly a slugger this year.
5 Mike Lowell (R)- can protect Ortiz very well.
6 Coco Crisp (L)- very poor .331 career OBP but has some pop (42 doubles last year). With MUCH better get on base guys up and down the line-up he DOES NOT belong in the lead-off position.
7 Jason Varitek (switch-hitter)
8 Alex Gonzalez (R)
9 Mark Loretta (R)- second lead-off man to get on ahead of big guns, only a .341 OBP.
As it stands now, we have three of the biggest out makers hitting 1,2,3. AND they will CONTINUE to make the most outs. Get guys on base that have a track record of doing so and let Big Papi and Lowell knock them in. Notice the way this line-up alternates lefty/righty. I don't care if Papi "likes" hitting third. Your best hitter should hit third. What has Coco ever done for the Sox? Hitting Youkilis 8th (the other night) is border-line criminal in light of his CARRYING the team so far. Varitek is washed up. I don't care about last night. He is no better than a seventh place hitter.

Right the fuck on, h.b. What bothers me about politics these days is the demonization of one's opponents. Sure, I may disagree with some of the guys on this board, but I'm able to recognize they're Sox fans, which means they're human, and we've got stuff in common. Politicians can bicker and argue about politics all day long, but for fuck's sake they should be able to get a beer at the end of the day and toast the fact that our society is civil enough to allow the bickering and the beer.

Now, with that out of the way...

I see the Democrats position as far morally superior to the Republicans. Vietnam was an atrocity.

Billy, do you recall our involvement in Vietnam was significantly escalated by democrat presidents? I don't know how you can say that right after saying "I agree with this: 'Dems only champion the "rights" of their respective interest groups/political constituencies.' And that's fine with me." The republicans do the same thing; how are they "morally inferior" for it?

Oh yeah, baseball. Nice to see Varitek tee off again. And I really like what Pauley did the other night. REALLY liked it. If Lester has anything similar and they can keep it up, they might just have spots in the rotation. Of course, that remains to be seen, but early returns are good. Pauley handled the pressure of his first start in Yankee Stadium with Papelbonesque poise. He made his pitches work for him and really battled. He seems to have the right attitude and combined with some nasty stuff that can make for a nuts-of-saturn kind of pitcher.

I don't think you'll get an argument on that point from anyone, H.B.

I like to think that's the case, but sometimes I get the feeling that some folks would rather see Iraq fall to shit just so they can get more pissed off at Bush.

Meanwhile, one positive about Vietam is that without that experience, today's military wouldn't be as superior as it is, particularly with regard to close air support, forward air control, and the development of precision guided, air-dropped munitions. (On this later point, they didn't have precision in Vietnam, but they knew from that experience how badly they needed to develop it. From that came "smart" bombs and "painting" targets etc.)

I like that line-up, although I would keep Ortiz and Manny 3 and 4 if they are happy there. Chemistry matters a little bit.

Lou, I'd fucking vote for Truman in one second. Total badass. One term, saw baseball and the military integrated, then got the fuck out of there with Bess.

hb: No question that the western left has fallen to pieces on Iraq, i.e., freeing 25 million people from a dictatorship should have them excited on principle, given the Wilsonian foundation of liberal/Dem foreign policy for 75 years.

The problem with the Bush admin is that the scheme to democratize the middle east is excessively utopian. The Muslim world en masse is still pissed off about Napoleon's invasion of Egypt, for God's sake... I hope Rice is bringing more realism/Kissingerian realpolitik to the decision level.

The Muslim world en masse is still
pissed off about Napoleon's invasion of Egypt, for God's sake

Not to mention still pissed off about getting booted out of Spain by Isabella in 1492.

Agree that the democratization scheme is utopian.

Just to be a nitpicker: Truman served most of FDR's fourth term and was then elected on his own, so he served from April 1945 until January 1953. He couldn't really seek a third term; after dismissing MacArthur, his poll ratings hit 22%.

But, I agree: totally badass. He faced down Communists, MacArthur, and Hoover, as well as living through an assassination attempt. Probably the number two badass president of the 20th Century behind TR.

Again, not to interrupt the fantastic geopolitical discussion currently erupting (good stuff guys, although I'm more on the JO side of "Libertarianism is the only hypocrisy I can embrace"...)

But yeah - I love Simmons more than most, but he's such a stereotypical Masshole douche about the Sox. He's essentially been laughed off the serious boards at SoSH for exactly this kind of sentimental shit - it's kind of disingenuous to point out the differences in Beckett's #s in the AL East, then get effusive over Petey's in the NL East.

It's hard to read - it's almost like hearing drunken Sully screaming at a TV at BBW . . . it's almost EEI-style, facts-free nostalgic ranting.

I'm teribly late h.b., but I just had to give you your props. Yesterday's strip was abso-f'n-lutely "laugh out loud" funny.

Aaron,I believe in their twisted Spankee minds, GBY=God Blessed Yankees.

dwight evan's son, I've talked in circles enough - I'm not ignoring your comments but I've spouted enough for one day so I give you the last say.

You gotta like Pauley, on paper at least. I haven't gotten to see him pitch yet.

Crazy game this morning between Germany and Costa Rica, eh?

sometimes I get the feeling that some folks would rather see Iraq fall to shit just so they can get more pissed off at Bush.

Not denying that there are some people out there like that. It's a viewpoint every bit as assinine as the nitwits on the Right (such as LGF) who think that *all* Muslims are on a mission to destroy Western civilization and that, therefore, anything we do to them is justified.

However, none of the antiwar people I've met are like that. The vast majority are quite capable of drawing a distinction between the welfare of our troops and their dislike of government that sent them to Iraq. One of the reasons I'm elated about Zarqawi's death is that I'm hoping this will help slow the tide of anarchy in Iraq and possibly hasten the day when things have quieted to the point that we can pull our kids the hell out of there.

(Of course, that hope rests on the assumption that "spreading democracy" is or ever has been an actual motivation of the Bush administration, but that's enother topic entirely.)

And finally, since I've been one of the primary guilty parties in contributing to the depressing, "CNN Crossfire" tenor of today's comments, I offer the following link to help lighten the mood:

Behold Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm-Flailing Tube Man.

You're welcome.

re: sometimes I get the feeling that some folks would rather see Iraq fall to shit just so they can get more pissed off at Bush.

Well said, HB. You are echoing my suspicions. On NPR yesterday I actually heard 2 callers bemoan the fact that it's a dark day for humanity when someone's death is celebrated. That asswipes death was as much a cause for celebration as beating the "Yank These" last night

I was just thinking about h.b.'s eloquent "old school" post and I realized it's easy to think someone (like me) is more dogmatic about things than they really are in a forum like this.

I'm very close with many conservative people. I almost married a diehard Republican. I had the honor of being invited to perform at the White House for Reagan in the early 80s, and though I didn't like his politics, it was certainly a proud moment to meet him, and he was as charming as you'd expect. I had friends in the 80s who were good friends with the Bush family.

I've never agreed with conservatism or the Republican party of my lifetime, and I often veer from the Democratic party. But the Republican party today seems so much more venal and disinterested in the common good than the party of the 80s and before. Regardless, I have great friends and close family members who I love and disagree with, and we sit down for beers all the time. We're all happy that Zarqawi is gone, that's for sure.

The Pedro moment I like to remember most is WS Game 3. The guy starts slow in a totally loseable game for the sox, and then just deals fire. Look at that game, it's just brutal for St. Louis, and Pedro's got that brutal "yeah I'm lookin' at you. What about it?" look on his face through the whole thing. That was awesome.

As for you expecting me to act happy about freeing folks from a brutal dictator, wake up. No one got freed from nothin'. Invading Iraq was rock stupid, and that is the starting point for any discussion of events there.

No one got freed from nothin'.

Let's agree to disagree on that one.

Meanwhile, Sox back in first!

Pedro moment? Back in '99, sitting in the MFYs' dreaded Tier way up above behind homeplate. But a great view to watch Pedro strike out 17 MFYs, 1 hit, a homer to Chilidog Davis but Sox win 3-1 over an overmatched Andy Pettite. Virtually unhittable. Couldn't wipe that smile off my face for a while. But as good as he looks now, he wasn't pitching anything like the '99 season in 2003-04, particularly against the MFYs. And lest we forget, the man is a sensitive artist... didn't like to see him go but happy for his success in the N.L. Mets-Bosox in October? Super schweet.

Greatest pitcher in franchise history?

I think there are a couple of other guys in ther with Pedro. One has already been mentioned, but I seem to remember that there was a guy who retired with 511 wins.

Theo should be fired for the way he handled the Pedro situation.

We are paying $12.5 mill for Clement and Edgar, Pedro looks like a bargain these days.


Greatest Pedro moment:
Game 3, 2004 World Series

I don't remember Theo pitching 7 shutout innings in the World Series.

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