« La Isla Bonita | Main | Just a little hunchback at the office »

One fan's treasure is another fan's trash

Bill:
Sorry, I'm just not feeling it …

 

Mike:
Dude, you're telling me that Stern's inside the pahkah and Tek's awesometastic slammy jammy didn't have you showing any love to the WBC?

 

Bill:
To me it's all like seeing the "Eiffel Tower" in Vegas or "visiting" Japan while at Epcot. No mattah how much it seems like the real deal, at the end of the day it's just an exhibit.

 

Mike:
But, Bill, these are real majah leaugahs playing real baseball.

 

Bill:
Yeah, and those are real cherry blossoms and real sushi at Epcot, but you're still in Orlando and not Okinawa no mattah how hahd you try to believe otherwise.

 

Mike:
OK, dude. Be that way, but you're missing some good baseball.

 

Bill:
Yeah, well, somehow I think I'll manage just fine until Opening Day with the Red Sox who, like myself, are taking a pass on the "It's a small world" Disneyesque side show.

 

Comments

Canada (yawn) beat the US yesterday?

In baseball's big picture that's as significant as these other results:

Yankees something, Pirates whatever
Brewers 7, Royals about that
Braves and Tigers tie
Devil Rays 4, Phillies not so much
Red Sox 1, Marlins a lot...

(yawn) get the picture?

I think we may have a decent back-up in Stern. Some pretty nice defense too.

If I may close up a discussion from yesterday, Tek had his first major league GS last year. He and Jeter shared a bond in being active stars who had never hit a "slammy jammy" up to that point.

I listened to the game last night on satellite and I have to admit that I got more excited about the World Baseball Classic even than I did about Coke Classic. Beyond the great contributions of Sox players, it was something to hear the US stars being taken down by a team that had a guy named Maxine St Pierre.

Yankees something, Pirates whatever
Red Sox 1, Marlins a lot

Whatever dude. I can't wait to watch former Marlin Josh Beckett pitch a no-hitter against your boys. Would have been a perfect game, but he had to ding A-rod in the ass.

Last night definitely re-affirmed my lack of interest in Coco Crisp with Stern's ridiculous performance, but definitely not in the WBC. The games have been fantastic so far, and since i'm rooting for the DR the US' chokejob doesn't affect me much.

The curse of Slappy McBlueLips is alive and well.

I saw tek's Slamma jamma at Pete's Pub, and have to admit the place went a little crazy. It surprised me; I personally don't give a flying feces about the WBC.

Damn it Brachen! Thanks for the song!

;)

Babe, ya sayin' they all mean nothing? I'd pretty much agree with you on the spring training games if that's the case. (Too many good players missing to evaluate many teams' win-loss records as meaningful--so I tell myself re: Red Sox anyway)

But I'm really enjoying the whole WBC thing so far. I've enjoyed every game I've watched (particularly watching South Africa take a lead against Canada into the 9th on a clutch bases loaded 2-out double), and I'm lookin' forward quite a bit to watching most (all?) of the Canada/Mexico game tonight.

Christ, Sean, he's only hit .600 in spring training so far.

Tek's GS was sweet whether it was real or not. And A-rod killing the rally was just as real.

'...the US stars being taken down by a team that had a guy named Maxine St Pierre.'

Not as bad as his teammate, STUBBY CLAPP!

I will care about the WBC when the games are actually televised when I'm NOT AT WORK.

Seriously, Selig, you want this pet project of yours to take off? You might want to give Americans an opportunity to consume the product without the use of Tivo.

Totally not feeling the WBC love right now. Possibly, I could someday, if this was a yearly event and there were big rivalries and some history between the teams. Right now, this is just another exhibition and nothing to get too excited about. It's like when you travel, and you want to see a game, but the home team is travelling and all you are left with is a double A affiliate club - you really don't know who all the players are, you don't know what to expect, the uniforms are alien, etc.

OTOH, Wells is heating up - with the mouth.

M

"re-affirmed my lack of interest in Coco Crisp with Stern's ridiculous performance"

And the hits just keep on comin'.

So now you want to replace an established pro with a guy who had one solid WBC game, but only has 15 major league at-bats? Good call. (rolling eyes). Not to knock Stern but ther's no way he is capable of being our starting CF. How exactly are you ging to react when Coco knocks in game winning hits? "Whatever- Marte would've hit the ball twice as hard"

Denver- I couldn't agree with you more. I love catching the highlights on SC and all, but c'mon. I'm pretty sure the semis and finals are more of a weekend event/ evening (PST) start, so we'll get ours...

As far as the quality of games, from what I saw/ heard that Panama-Cuba game yesterday was as good of a game as you can watch. That along with the DR-Venezuela slugfest and USA's near comeback vs Canadia = games I enjoy watching infinitely more than spring training A-ball-fests. Apart form the on the field action, I also think it's pretty amazing the passion the international fans show during games. Those guys go CRAZY.

Yeah, I know it doesn't mean anything, and the way players kept dropping out leading up to it was a joke. But here's the thing...I need baseball BAD. I'm in serious withdrawl here. I'm talking babies crawling across the ceiling, violent shakes, and Locke telling me I can ask him three times for my baseball back before he gives it to me. The fact that Coors Field is all but across the street is only exacerbating things--I might as well be living across the street from a Discount Crack Emporium.

So while the WBC doesn't mean jack...it still features much higher quality games than Spring Training, with players who at least seem more concerned with winning than they do in ST. I'm eating this shit up as fast as they can shovel it towards me.

Oh well, at least my first fantasy draft is today.

I think part of the problem here is that the WBC leads to nowhere. I have no idea what Stern was thinking in the OF ... if that fool gets killed before the season, I'll drive to his house and break the other leg. But the offensive slaughter is because the pitching is sub-par and nobody cares what the outcome is.

When the game is completely meaningless, the good batters have a huge advantage. For the baseball noobs, I'm sure 20-1 is a great baseball score....hit another one, Homer. Nearly every game has ended with the winners in double digits. That's not baseball it's batting practice.

I'm with Bill. When they install the bura sera machines in Epcot, then I take Japanland seriously. When they play pitchers for more than 3 innings, then I take the WBC seriously.

If Selig had any intentions on making this worth its while and not some marketing gimmick for the post-NFL/pre-MLB month, then he'd center it around the All-Star Game once every 3-4 years and treat it like the NHL does for the Winter Olympics.

Brian- Exactly. I haven't been watching too much of the WBC (working too much) but I caught part of a game as I was buying dinner the other night and the instantaneous rush of giddiness that ran through me upon seeing live baseball can't be described. I imagine its how a right-out-of rehab junkie feels after the first relapse :)

NV-
No, but when Crisp can't reach any number of fly balls, and his noodle arm lets the winning run score, I might be somewhat less than thrilled.

Or, when his .340 OBP keeps dozens of runs off the board this year from Manny and Papi's awesomeness, I won't be so thrilled. If he were batting 6th or 9th I'd feel differently than I will when he's hitting first.

I saw the highlights and thought it was great baseball, great catch by one from the Canadian team! And I didn't know that grand slam tidbit about Tek and Jeter (hate to even type his name!).
p.s. I love coco crisp no matter what Sean O says!!

Who would you have in the 1 spot- The Greek god of Concrete Shoes? 34-year old Mark Loretta? Regardless, Crisps' projected OBP of .345 isn't that much worse that Damon's .366, but is much better than Stern's .188. I sincerely doubt that he is going to keep 'dozens' of runs off the board. I'm trying not to anoint him as the second coming, I just think you're being way too hard on a proven player who you haven't even seen play yet. How about a little support for your 2006 Boston Red Sox instead of the doom and gloom he sucks, he's going to kill the team, etc?

//instantaneous rush of giddiness that ran through me upon seeing live baseball can't be described//

In my next life, I'm going to marry a girl who says stuff like this :) Too late for this life. My wife has many great qualities, unfortunately, an appreciation of baseball is not one of them.

COD- perhaps we should swap partners! My boyfriend thinks baseball is boring, but at least he puts up graciously with my nightly obsession from Apr-Oct. He's lasted longer than the last BF, who is a Yankees fan. With that one, I certainly shared passion, but a relationship with no respect never survives. ;)

He's lasted longer than the last BF, who is a Yankees fan.

I've always been interested in the dynamics of such a relationship... have toyed with the idea of exploring it in the strip through the characters...

h.b.- gotta say, it starts off pretty fun... you share a similar passion, and the sparring and bickering over the rivarly is great foreplay. But at the end of the day, we all know that Yanks fans are entitled, self-centered narcissists (or maybe that was just him ;)

So now you're saying I don't support the team because I think we made a dumbass move? I support the team the entire offseason when the rest of the Nation melts down, and now that I oppose this one move, I don't support the team. Wow.

The difference between .366 and .340 is pretty big at the top of the order, roughly 15 more baserunners. Considering Damon was around .390 for most of last season, and that's about 24 more baserunners. I think that's kind of important, especially since Crisp is questionable on the basepaths, according to scouting reports.

The point is, Crisp is obviously much better than Stern, but Stern was free, and better defensively. Loretta is a far better choice at the top of the lineup.

My wife's a Yankees fan (before the "divorce her!" comments arrive, I'll say she's awesome in every other way). Also, my sister (Sox fan of course) married a New Yorker who's a big Spankees fan.

My wife was pretty quiet about it during the 1996-2000 run, to her credit, and we avoided watching any games together.

She was VERY quiet in 2003, particularly because my job required me to watch Boone's HR from the Marquis in Times Square (that was a bad frigging night), and she knew I'd had enough already.

I was NOT quiet in 2004 but did not taunt her directly after Reese-to-Minky (though she endured a lot of calls to my sibs and parents that sounded something like "wooooooooo hooooooooo"). She also let me wear my big, green Red Sox shirt in Times Square during the World Series (only one guy threatened my life, BTW).

Last year there were several tense moments. When Foulke blew a save in Texas I threw my shoes at the TV and she didn't talk to me until the next morning because it scared the dogs. When Giambi hit a HR at Fenway early in the year she gave me one of those looks that says "I'm taunting you by not taunting you, chump".

There was little talk about the Damon deal because she never liked him that much, and I have always referred to him as "her boyfriend, Johnny".

Baseball season is a constant game where we try to discuss baseball while pretending we don't care that much if something bad happens to our team.

h.b. and Natalie-
Not only have I dated a MFY fan, I'm marrying one. We watch the Sox/Yanks games in separate rooms. I think my being out of town for the 2004 ALCS saved our relationship. On the whole it's fun that we can relate on a baseball level, but it really sucks with the Yanks win.

Love the WBC. Americans need to start watching National Teams with pros. Football is what we're best at and nobody else plays it. It makes it that much harder to explain the World Cup.

I have a friend, Yanks fan, who married a Red Sox fan (which I imagine is somewhat common in Connecticut where they live).

Mostly, they respect each other's teams. He (Yanks fan) says it gets tough around the playoffs, obviously. I would never inquire about anybody's rate of intimacy, but he has sort of hinted that as the season heats up, they can fall into an 0-for-27, 0-for-30 day slump.

I dated a Red Sox fan back in the early 90's. The rivalry between the teams was in a lull at the time, but, as I recall, it was still somewhat of a turn-on for both of us, you know, that subtle, playful nastiness that works both ways?

She could nevah, evah bring me home to her family, and I'd never take off my Yankee hat to please her pop, so we knew it would never last - which, of course, made it very, very good while it did.

I'm enjoying all the anecdotes regarding the "star-crossed lovers."

Yes, it is possible for a woman to love baseball and be knowledgable about the game. Thanks for your insights Natalie, I feel you are a "kindred spirit".

Jenn:)

I recently dated a girl from Rhodie who was a Sox fan, as was her mother and her sister. Upon meeting the rest of the fam though, I discovered that her dad and two brothers were dyed-blue yanker fans. This was uncomfotable at the outset, as my first contact with one of her bros was when she called him up after the '04 ALCS and I relayed to him how much the yankees suck. After a while though, they all turned out to be pleasant people- we just didn't talk about baseball. The girlfriend on the other hand...

Wow is right Sean. Every time you post I read something about how screwed we are or how player/ pitcher x is going to screw us. You went on a rant just yesterday about how bad Theo sucks. Now you're saying how you're the only one that has stuck by the team's side in the offseason? Wow again. I'm not discounting your fan-dom, but you come across as someone who writes for Boston Dirt Dogs (eg- the pessimismis rampant).
As for stats to back up my arguments (re-your last post yesterday), I don't really pay much attention to the SABR stuff and my point you questioned has nothing to do with $ or an 'objecitve basis'. I was pointing out the general feeling of the fan base, and I don't think there's stats for that. Whatever- to each his own right?
As far a Loretta in the 1 spot? I've wathed that guy probably 25+ times over the past two seasons at PetCo and he is the definition of a 2 spot guy: Sprays line drives with a little pop, dosen't run well. Crisp is the man, and I look forward to you eating some crow this season.

The interesting thing re Sean O's pessimism from my perspective is that I always envisioned at least one of the character's expressing exactly that same general nihilism that Sean expresses here.

Indeed, if you look back at the archives for say Apr/May 2004, you'll see much more of this kind of negativity, particularly from Doug.

And that continued fairly well through much of 2004. (I remember one strip in particular where Doug just rips Theo a new asshole with his complaints. It's one of my faves.)

However, after how 2004 ended, I sort of lost the ability to throw myself into that total negative mindset.

So in that sense, I'm glad to have Sean around, because he's helping me once again better realize that aspect of Red Sox fandom.

I'm dating a great girl right now who has no grasp of baseball or football fandom whatsoever. I actually felt obligated to rent Fever Pitch one night so she'd watch it and understand me better, though I had to emphasize that I'm not quite as psychotic as Jimmy Fallon's character :)

Right now, she's only familiar with the January/February/March version of DSF, so we'll have to see what happens when my Red Sox/Broncos mania takes over the other 9 months of the year. I'm going to try my hardest to get her to drool over Varitek's ass, or whatever it is that female, fence-riding Sox fans do to stay interested.

DSF- Actually, it's Tek's thighs...and Kapler's anything ;)

Jennay- right back at you!

That's interesting, hb, because I think that as I've read the strip, I've been impressed with how much your characters have evolved from archetypes into three-dimensional characters. You still see negativity sometimes, but it's more unpredictable, much like I feel most of the dialogue is. Like I said, I think that's pretty impressive, I feel like most people have trouble fleshing out anything more than one-dimensional characters.

That said, I almost wrote during a post the other night that I feel like Sean O IS a caricature, that he's been a one-note character since coming on here. Hell, 90% of the time I feel like I could write his post before he does, and no one could tell the difference--it's very easy to predict it ahead of time. I don't feel that way with the characters.

By the way, is it weird that while sometimes when I'm missing baseball badly, I'll go back to archives of various Sox sites and read the comments from the run in 2004...but half the time, I'll go do the same thing at Yankee fan sites, and revel in their misery?

I love when people try to act like I'm not reading in an attempt to be clever, it's really great.

I'm negative about two things on this team, and even that stems out of the same thing. I loved the Loretta move, glad boomer and manny weren't traded (though, would've been fine with Cameron / Petit / Milledge), have come to terms with the Beckett deal since Papa Curt will teach him well, and love the vast majority of our moves.

But apparently arguments based on objective stats don't have any weight, since I just hate this team.

Sean,

If the majority of people think you're coming across as a hater... well, I'm just saying.

As for your "objective stats" I'm of the belief that if you really are more talented than Theo et al then, chances are, one of these two things would be true:

1) You'd be working in baseball professionally as a stats guy ala Eric Van

or

2) You'd have a website where you laboriously crunch numbers and run numbers ala Dave Pinto or Aaron Gleeman.

Guys who just run their mouths off on comments sections of blogs about being smarter then everyone else, well, that doesn't so much cut it IMO.

No attempt to be clever there, just stating an opinion. Why on earth would I think you wouldn't read that? It's not like I hid the post.

I'm a huge numbers nerd, I love stats-based arguments. And, I agree that Coco should be hitting 5th, not first (although that's more based on his jump in doubles and slugging last year. I tend to be a big believer in the theory that increased doubles lead to an increase in homers down the line. I also think his SLG will continue to trend upwards).

What really rubbed me the wrong way, though, was your comment a week or so ago after Crisp wen 3 for 3 in his first game, that if he went 3 for 3 in every subsequent game, you'd still hate him because of the Marte trade. That just seemed like such a juvenile attitude, and it bugged me. I also failed to see the part of that argument that was based on objective stats.

It's not the Crisp and Theo arguments that bothered me, it's that they seem to fit a pattern on this board and on SG of finding the most pessimistic viewpoint possible on a ton of subjects.

That said, your post this morning on SG was pretty damn funny. I feel like you have interesting things to say, and a good alternative viewpoint, I just wish all your posts weren't so one-note.

It's all about Sean, isn't it.

Oh wait- I guess it is.

Just to make sure I understand your argument- we keep Marte, who wouldn't get any semblance of PT this year behind our current $9mil 3B, have Stern and his 15 games of MLB experience as our everyday CF, have slow footed Loretta as our leadoff man, and fire Theo.

Since it is impossible to persuade you to take a step away from that piece of genius and look at the overall picture, I've decided to let you go on your short-sighted rants and laugh when you are inevitably proven wrong as the season progresses. Game on!

Oh, and I forgot:

PECOTA has Crisp projected for a baseline OBP of .347, and Damon for a baseline OBP of .352. Beyond that, they have Crisp at .347/.445/.792, and Damon at .352/.423/.775. They give Crisp a 70% chance of improving on that baseline, and Damon only a 34% chance of improving his baseline. AND, keep in mind that Crisp's projection is for Jacobs Field, so the increase in Park factor should up his projections slightly. Now I'm not the biggest fan of PECOTA, I think it tends to be too conservative. But I don't see the basis for a statistical argument that Crisp will be a worse leadoff hitter thn Damon was.

Uhm, I haven't posted to Surving Grady since November, so I don't know who's either posting as me, or who you're confusing me with.

I just find it funny that I'm getting jumped on for being pessimistic about two things, while no one had a problem with everyone ripping on the FO and the moves made between November and January.

I don't like Theo's moves, and every time I see Crisp I think of what was a terrible move made from a position of weakness. I've liked, or can at least appreciate, every other move they've made this offseason.

So where in this am I saying I'm smarter than theo, or I could do it better? All I'm saying is, Theo is overrated and people are blind to it, and our supposed usage of Crisp will hurt our team.

So where in this am I saying I'm smarter than theo, or I could do it better?

Dude, do you read your own posts? You're implying that [I'm smarter] all over the mofo place.

All I'm saying is, Theo is overrated and people are blind to it

Overrated how? In the he's the first GM in 87 years to be general managing the team that wins the pennant, World Champions, and all that inconsequiental shit?

Well, fuck, but sign me up for that kind of overrated.

I'm blinded by the light...

and our supposed usage of Crisp will hurt our team.

But that's just it: It's a TEAM. Not all the pieces are right; it just the best guess under the circumstances, i.e, a fucking TEAM.

That's why we play the 162 games.

And that's why I don't think you'd last 15 mintues as the GM of the Spinners, let alone the big club.

As someone else earlier pointed out, you're the quinnetessance of 1-D.

Fine, theo's a genius, and all those examples I gave of him making questionable moves were wrong.

From now on I'll only complain about the team when all the bandwagoners are complaining too, like they were from November through January.

I really do see why so many people hate Sox fans now.

I too am married to a rabid mfy fan, and live in the belly of the beast, (I'm a Rhode Islander). For years I suffered through all those mfy games, until I got digital cable a few years ago. Granted I still have to see the sox vs mfy without remdawg and orsillo, but its all good. Yeah his friends are jealous that I love the game and can intelligently discuss it, but it really would be great if we could enjoy a game together and root for the same team. But, well, we just keep fighting for the remote at the end of each inning; it's fantastic when the sox don't have games scheduled for the same time the mfy play, I get to watch with no interruptions. And yeah, he is my husband and all, but true to form, he is a typical, arrogant mfy fan.

"I really do see why so many people hate Sox fans now."

If nothing else Sean, that singular statement will eternally endear you to me.

I heart pesimmistic, uptight, 1D Sean O.

Get a fucking clue.

Um, isn't one of the stereotypes people hate about Sox fans that we're moody, always negative, and always convinced the sky is falling?

Sean,

I think I already said I find your negativity inspiring in many ways.

But, sorry, I'm just not going to buy the idea that you'd somehow make a better GM than Theo Epstein or even that you've got some mental acumen that makes you see things he and his gang have somehow missed.

I mean, sure, feel free to rip Theo's moves etc., but don't get all huffy and imply the rest of us are stupid when we don't feel inclined to agree.

Realize, too, that as much as I do like Theo, I'd be making the same argument regardless of who the GM is.

From my perspective, it's the height of naivete for a fan, and that includes any of us, to actually think we have a better handle on things than the folks who are making their careers out of running a baseball team.


Why are we ignoring the real story about Canada's WBC team?

Their second baseman is named Stubby Clapp.

Stubby Clapp!

That beats out Homer Bush and Coco Crisp for wonderful baseball names. The NBA and NFL don't have names this entertaining.

On a side note, my wife did pretty well in her fantasy league by drafting people based entirely on their names. "Pujols" makes her giggle every time. (Say it out loud a few times when there's a six-year-old boy around...)

The comments to this entry are closed.

The Soxaholix eBook Spinoff

The captivating and long awaited Soxaholix eBook spinoff is finally available!

There's No Crying in Pocket Pool

cover

Purchase at Amazon.

T-shirt

Logo t-shirts now available, several colors, even pink.

'Soxaholix logo t-shirt