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Lovin' that sweet access

Mike:
So we're always reminded by the major media how important they are and how we fans and bloggahs can't live without them because of their club sanctioned "access" to the playahs …

 

Mike:
But now we hear from Schilling that "the loitering-to-writer ratio is about 100 percent"

 

Doug:
Yeah, why aftah reading of hundreds of inaccurate, dumb, or otherwise mailed in with zero effaht stories am I not surprised to hear "9 times out of 10 they’re not doing crap"

 

Mike:
I know you often have take Schilling with a grain of salt, but can't you just pictchah the scene Schilling describes, "They’re watching TV, grabbing a bottle of watah, reading our papahs …"?

 

Doug:
And Schilling confirms something we've all suspected, "You’ll see a story written by a guy who was standing in the clubhouse and didn’t do an interview."

 

Mike:
Thanks for the heavy lifting, guys. Thanks for putting that frickin' "access" to work and giving your readahs content worth reading.

 

Doug:
And this is the gang that salivates at the chance to pen a "playa so and so isn't hustling enough" or "playah x disrespecting the game" Physician, heal thyself.

 

Mike:
Let's see, for stahtahs we've got laziness, sloppiness with facts, hostility toward playahs, animosity towards their readahs, a mockery and general disdain for sabermetrics … Whoo hoo! Now that's a savvy business model to reverse the downwahd trend in newspaper readership and profitability!

 

Doug:
Yeah, can't wait to renew my subscription.

 

Comments

Where have I been? Two years of Soxaholix gone past, and I knew nothing. O Death in Life, the days that are no more!

hb- last link in penultimate panel "reverse the downward..." is bad....

Thanks on the bad link notice. Fixed now.

Hey, h.b., I just read the WSJ piece. I have to confess that I'm not up to speed on the literary allusions and quotes in your strip. I went to the small private school down the street from Harvard; you only have to take two courses in four years where the books have more words than equations in them to graduate from there. But I love the strip. I'm one of 500, eh? Have you seen an uptick in hits since the WSJ piece came out?

Meanwhile, back here in Chicago, the penultimate play of last night's game has been analyzed over and over again. It's amazing how many people DIDN'T know that you can advance on a third strike in the dirt, or that the umpire SHOULD signal a strike and an out, or that it goes in the books as a strikeout. When I saw the very first replay, I turned to my wife (who does know; my daughter caught fast-pitch softball in club travelling teams, high school and college) and said, "They're going to rule the catcher trapped the ball." And that's what happened. It wasn't a dropped third strike (which is what the commentators called it), it was a trap. And that's what the umpire said after the game (accompanied by the crew chief and the league supervisor of umpires; think they coached him a bit?).

I loved the league supervisor. In the press conference after the game, some dimwit made a convoluted comment about how you're never supposed to hear the umpires' names and what it means if you do, and the supervisor said "Pardon me?" with a quizzical expression, and then "Next question!" with a disgusted one. I should hope the guy in charge of the MLB umpires wouldn't suffer fools gladly.

The play could only have happened like that on the third out. On the first or second one, the catcher either holds onto the ball or throws it to the pitcher, who is still on the mound. It was interesting to listen to them talk to both the catcher and the plate umpire talk about how the umpire simultaneously calls a strike (otherwise, how do you know it's a third strike and you can advance) and signals "No catch". Both of them talked about what umpires "usually" do, which means to me that is no consistent practice. That should change, although it worked out for the White Sox (or as Ken Harrelson says when he's feeling literary, the Pale Hose) this time.

Now, for those of you who think you know something about baseball, I have a question that I sincerely don't know the answer to: if the catcher traps the pitch, is it a wild pitch, a passed ball, or what? If there is an error, does it come from trapping the ball, or not throwing it down to first in time? And is it E-2 or E-3, or no error, given that I'm not even sure there was a first baseman to throw to?

I heard this interview on WEEI two days ago from Schilling. It was pretty much what I expected. I really wish the front office would get its act together and get in line with the rest of the league on keeping them out prior to game time. It's like Curt said, "...It's our home. We spend more time here than at home during the season."

If someone kept coming over my house and mooching off of me and getting in the way while I'm trying to do my work that I brought home before going in to give a big presentation at work the next day...I'd kill them and I wouldn't think twice about it.

I love, absolutely love, that Boston as a city is really into its sports teams. I would never want to see that interfere with their ability to perform for us and in this case, I really think it has (as witnessed by all of the times that Manny gets fed up and wants to leave, Pedro was happy to brush us off for a few million more than stay with his Caribbean brethren, Foulke has gone from stud to goat, etc).

h.b., just wanted to add my congratulations to you on the WSJ article. No more laboring in obscurity! Curious it was in the WSJ, though. Does this mean an IPO is not far off? What then, trademarks and.....franchises? You could become the Ray Kroc of blogging.....your motto: "Over 90 Billion Spoofed" or something like that...I leave that to the more create of the bunch.

Anyway, the Soxaholix has become a integral part of my daily routine. Thanks, h.b.

Does a day go by when the Schill doesn't whine about something?

Just read the WSJ article. A great look behind the curtain (and by Stefan Fastis, too, how cool is that?! His book "Wordfreaks" was tremendous.). May you have nothing but continued success.

Oh, yeah, count me as another one who had no idea "Hart Brachen" was a pseudonym. But, then, I always pronounced "Brachen" so the "Brach" rhymed with "Loch."

Does Billy Mahty ever post without whining about something?

Really, Schill, with all due respect, stuff a bloody sock in it.

Your world championship reign ended in a disgraceful sweep and did you lift a finger to stop that from happening?

And now you're complaining about a few lazy, free-loading sports writers in the clubhouse?! I think you lost your perspective out there in the bullpen, Curt.

If all you schadenfraude-hungry Bosox fans want a glimpse behind the dark curtains of a truly maddeningly dysfunctional baseball clubhouse, read the comments made by our esteemed pitching coach, Mel Stottlemyre, as he walked out of Steinbrenner's life for good yesterday. Huge loss for Jedi Joe Torre. Huge loss for my mofo Yanks.

The Yanks have duplicitous weasels (Tampa toadies) *within the organization* to worry about! and nobody has time to exterminate or even think about the infestation of scavenger-dog reporters sniffing around for clubhouse scraps!

More sweet, sticky schadenfreude for RSN to wallow in.

Best,

Bernie Williams

Denver Jim... turning an insult on a loudmouth jerk into a personal attack on me. Actually, if you read my posts, you will see your comment is baseless.

Sometimes I feel like I'm a reasonable person trying to get a word in against Bill O'Reilly around here. Don't worry, at this rate you'll shout me out of here soon enough.

Great strip today HB. I know a lot of sportswriters, and they're like every other type of worker. Some are good at what they do, some stink; some work hard, some mail it in. Some work hard one day and mail it in another day. I can imagine that if I were a ballplayer they would drive me crazy. But as a reader I want them to have access. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe the papers should let the players and the fans into the newsroom to interview the writers about what they were thinking after they wrote something. That would be entertaining.

Hey Billy and Bernie, here's a news bulletin for you. This is a RED SOX fan site. HB is not required, expected, or even encouraged to comment on Mel Stottelmeyer, Joe Torre, George $teinbrenner and his Tampa Bay Megabuck-aneers or anything else that goes on in the Bronx. And when he does, you guys come in here and complain anyway, so he really can't win can he, as far as you're concerned anyway? Of course, you come here anyway, which is a pretty sad commentary on the state of the blogs and Web sites in Yankeeland.

This is not at all like trying to argue with Bill O'Reilly. HB does not claim that this blog is a no-spin zone, or that it is "fair and balanced" -- it's a RED SOX fan site, and it's supposed to be funny. The Red Sox fans who hang out here seem to enjoy themselves immensely. If you don't, why don't you just type a different URL into your address field and cruise on somewhere else. And if you must stick around, can't you at least TRY to be funny or humorous or witty instead of merely obnoxious and self-righteous?

Sure, this is a RED SOX fan site, Pops.

But I think Mr. Hart Brachen realizes his strip has "mass appeal" as well. Or is this for RSN only, Mr. Brachen? Say the word and us Yankee "trolls" (and supporters of baseball clubs outside Boston) will become forever indifferent to your work.

Because, as Diane Chambers explained to Sam Malone (is "Cheers" still a touchstone in RSN?): "everybody knows the opposite of love isn't hate. It's indifference."

Every baseball fan (who is not a "hater") can relate to the schizoid mood swings of RSN.

I actually enjoy reading the RSN perspective about the Yanks. I think the Marty depiction of Yankee fans is funny (and accurate!). I can laugh at the flaws and hypocrisy of the team I follow every day. Can you?

I enjoy Mr. Brachen's literary and pop culture references. I enjoy the new interpretations of old "Squeeze" songs posted here.

Am I a Red Sox fan? Hell no. But I can relate to you.

And since my "MF Yanks" are so often a subject here, isn't it fair, even appropriate, that a few "MF Yankee fans" weigh in from time to time?

Sorry that I've come across as obnoxious and self righteous. But if you're honest you'll admit there's plenty of that going around RSN, too, sir.

Respectfully yours,

Bernie Williams

Pawsoxpop, I applaud your determination: Every development seems to somehow reflect poorly on the Yankees, no matter how indirect. Bravo, and I'm not being sarcastic. You are the Cato the Younger of this site's comment threads...and that's a compliment. Cato was the most hardcore adherent to the principles of the late Roman Republic, to the exclusion of all else.

Today's strip: What will replace old media? I understand and agree with the larger criticisms expressed via the Schilling example. God only knows what the media got away with prior to the fabricated Texas Air National Guard memos. And the blogs primarily exposed CBS on this.

But: You've all heard the joke: the blogosphere is like the old media, except without any fact checking. To me, the question is, are we writing old media off before its replacement is ready?

Look Bernie,
Of course you and anybody else is welcome to read and post here. But I have to work with MFY fans all day long and I come here for a respite from the obnoxious, self-righteous attitude of the worst specimens of that breed. You can perhaps get a better response in enemy territory if you use humor and maybe some forethought before just typing the first thing that comes into your head. I am not a Yankee fan so maybe I won't be too good at this but here is an example of what I'm talking about.

Instead of: Really, Schill, with all due respect, stuff a bloody sock in it.

Your world championship reign ended in a disgraceful sweep and did you lift a finger to stop that from happening?

And now you're complaining about a few lazy, free-loading sports writers in the clubhouse?! I think you lost your perspective out there in the bullpen, Curt.

Why not try something like this: "I don't know what Schilling is complaining about. Maybe if he'd let the reporters eat his food and read his papers more often, he'd have been in better shape to pitch a few more games."

Couching your comment in humor like that would allow you to say the same thing and get a humorous riposte from a Sox fan instead of merely an angry put-down. Then the Soxaholix experience would be a more pleasurable experience for everybdy.

All I'm saying is if a Yankee fan wants to post here, please try to be witty, humorous or insightful. Don't just give us the same old tired nonsense that we have to endure all the time in the non-Soxaholix universe.

Thanks for the kind words, Jason. But since I'm of Portuguese heritage, not Roman or Italian, so rather than Cicero, I sort of model myself after Viriato, the warrior-chieftan to defended Lusitania from conquest by the Roman Empire. You can read about him here.

http://viriato.netfirms.com/

I had an Uncle Chico whose real name was Viriato, and nobody could ever explain to me where that name came from until I Googled it one day and found this site. Using the old media, it may have taken me five days in five different libraries to find out that info. I don't know if it's been fact checked, but it seems pretty credible.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I enjoy the fact that Yankee fans post here. The conversation would become boring if it was nothing but an echo chamber. There's only one pro-Yankee regular here who I personally found annoying, and that had less to do with his choice of teams and far more with the fact that he was an obnoxious, insulting prick who typed in all caps and was far more interested in starting flame wars than arguing about baseball. Since he was banned, the comments on this site are a far more pleasant read.

None of the current Yankee posters here even begin to approach He Who Shall Not Be Named's level of rudeness.

Regarding the media, I don't think it's an all or nothing proposal i.e, it's either blogs or traditional media, but rather a reluctance on their part to get with the times.

For instance, how can a newspaper think of its sports coverage as serious if there isn't a single reporter on staff who has a least a working knowledge of basic sabermetrics? Heck, at this point I'd be happy if they just stopped deriding the "stat heads" every chance they get.

And as for the columnists like CHB, what value does he add? Despite all of his (et al) access, have you been elightened by anything he's written in the past, I dunno, 5 years?

The bigger point of today's strip is that, if you accept what Schilling says, it's a travesty that all of that "access" is wasted on sportswriters who don't really seem to give a shit about 1) the game 2) their product 3) their readers.

Now, personally, I'm not one of those guys/gals who dreams of being the next beat writer or columnsit, but I know there are plenty of baseball bloggers who do. I'd love to see what would happen if a couple of these people were given the kind of access that the media elite have.

Conversely, take away the access that a guy like Shaugnhessy enjoys and see if he can turn out a daily piece of writing as good and as entertaining as what the best of the bloggers do.

It'd be an interesting experiment.

Didn't hear Schilling's comments, but Tito mentioned yesterday on 'EEI that he hoped MLB would step in and decrease the amount of time the media has access to the clubhouse prior to games. He felt it would benefit all concerned- players would have more time to prepare, and ultimately the media would have better quality of access because said players wouldn't be looking for ways to avoid them. It's something worth considering. I know I wouldn't want to have someone asking me the same inane questions every day while I was trying to work. The head of umpires isn't the only person out there who doesn't suffer fools gladly- Mike Timlin, for one, has been known to stare down a questioner or two, and rightly so. While I appreciate what access does for us, the fans, I can also empathize with the players somewhat. Perhaps they can have media access to players on a rotating basis closer to game times, similar to how the players manage autograph sessions and other PR work, in a designated area outside the clubhouse? That way the majority could prepare for the game in whatever manner they choose. Days off from the lineup, days off from the media access

We're conditioned to get straight to the point in Yankeeland, Pops. Hence: "put a bloody sock in it, Schill"

But I understand you speak a slightly different language here in RSN. And as an uninvited visitor, I'm down with the Trojan Horse tactic of couching an unflattering comment with a joke.

I will keep your tips in mind if I feel compelled to post here again.

Best,

Bernie

pawsoxpop, the criticisms you've thrown at me just aren't fair. First off, there's too much painting all Yanks fans with one pinstripe. I'm not BigBri or Bernie, and my comments are much more respectful (maybe not of Schilling, but of Sox fans, commenters here, and Sox history).

This whole thing about h.b. not expected or required to comment on Yanks stuff -- yes, and? I've never asked for anything like that. And when he does, he can't win? The last Yank I remember mentioned in the Soxaholix was Giambi, and my comment: "Giambi is fair game."

You're way off base man.

As far as my and other Yanks fans' presence here being a sad state of Yanks fansites and/or blogs, I really don't give a crap about Yanks fansites or blogs. I've hardly ever looked for one. That doesn't mean I don't love my team and follow them obsessively.

And my comment today was not a critique of h.b. at all. I don't see him shouting me down, it's people like you. My critique of Schilling is one I've heard echoed by Sox fans (note the qualifier in today's strip). By your logic if a Sox fan criticizes Schilling it's one thing, but a Yanks fan should just go somewhere else if they want to say something.

And what's this standard I keep hearing: Yanks fans around here have to be humorous. You're not all a laugh riot, I tell ya.

I'll tell you why I come here. The characters in the strip are charming to me. I like reading what they have to say (their love of the Sox, their frustrations, their complaints). The Sox legacy and their loyal fanbase is one of the greatest stories in sports, and this site gives me a little window on it. Also, I often learn things I might not otherwise learn, and sometimes I'll even get a little JLH titillation.

You've got a nice little (and growing) community here. It would be nice if Yanks fans could be accepted because we obviously appreciate what's going on. And some of us try to show a lot of respect - maybe I can do a better job at it, but I try.

I know I'm no laugh riot, especially when I'm steamed about the MFY, but if I were to try to post on a Web site devoted to the Yanks, I'd sure try to think of a decent zinger. Like I said, I work in NYC with Yankee fans, many of whom are great guys I can have a reasonable conversation with about the game. But if I have one of those conversations with them, I decide in advance not to insult any of the Yankees unless I can do so in a way that will not get somebody mad. Usually the way to do that is to say something that will crack people up. It takes thought, but it's worth it -- both for the person making the comment and the one hearing it. The other good thing about it is that instead of eliciting anger, you usually get another joke in return, which brightens everybody's day a little bit. If you're going to come out straight-shooting with pro-Yankee comments around here, don't be surprised if other readers respond with vitriol. I'll try not to do so myself from here on, but I cannot speak for the other Soxaholix...

"are we writing old media off before its replacement is ready?"

I don't think it matters if the replacement is ready. Blogging and internet media serve the purpose of offering an alternate viewpoint to the corporate controlled media that dominates our lives. Even if they're way off base, they're probably as close as the reality we see on t.v.

I love the fact that now it's possible for someone to call bulls*** on the powers that be and have a voice in doing that.

As for giving bloggers the same kind of access that mainstream media gets, that's bound to happen. Look at someone like Markos of the Daily Kos who is all over the place, not because he always has something particularly meaningful to say, but because he's built a huge community that gets a lot of attention. All of the sudden he's got a lot of cache.

Not that this is necessarily a good thing. There's the risk that blogger turned pundit becomes just another talking head.

psp, i see your point, and i think that's a good approach, but it can't always be the expectation. some people will be good at things like that. others will not.

and really, a lot of the interpretation is in the eye of the beholder. i find both of these comments equally funny (not very, but equally):

"Really, Schill, with all due respect, stuff a bloody sock in it."

"Maybe if he'd let the reporters eat his food and read his papers more often, he'd have been in better shape to pitch a few more games."

In the tech media world, internet-based outlets already have great respect and access to sources - Cnet, for example. Some of the bloggers are likely to get there as well. But you can see here this week what excitement well written coverage in a conventional pub like WSJ can still elicit.

I have to think the mediocrity of sports coverage in the traditional media is driven by the advertisers.

Point taken Billy. Like I said, "I am not a Yankee fan so maybe I won't be too good at this" and I guess I'm not. Bernie will have to hire a better joke-writer than me. Maybe if he makes a secure contribution HB will help him come up with a few zingers.

Moving on to Shaughnessy, I think you're being charitable, HB in saying he hasn't been worth reading for about five years. For me, he jumped the shark in the late '80s and has been showing only reruns since about 1993. It seems to me like he's been using his access to moldy clippings from the Globe archives and old-media vinyl Dylan and Springsteen LPs more than his access to the Red Sox clubhouse for at least a decade now. As others have said here before, I think he was pretty good until he wrote that "Curse of the Bambino" book and then he became as predictable as a Beach Boys concert.

"I have to think the mediocrity of sports coverage in the traditional media is driven by the advertisers."

I think it's more like a problem you get in academia when you give tenure to somebody and sometimes -- not always -- they start to mail it in. Then they have tenure and you can't do anything about it. Guys like CHB and to a lesser extent Ryan earned their exalted status decades ago and unlike Gammons, they have grown lazy and pompous. I like HB's idea about letting bloggers have a try, but that will never happen. But perhaps a paper should allow a really hard-working reporter who has excelled at another beat like City Hall or Police coverage to spend a year or two as a sports columnist, as a reward for excellence in other, less celebrated sections of the paper. That might keep the regular columnists on their toes while also giving some excellent journalists a chance to try something new and exciting. Just a thought.

I have to admit something - I simply don't read the Globe sportswriters or any others and never have, thus have trouble following the derision. They are a non-entity. I know Fox and ESPN are a flotilla of fools, but I think we covered that pretty soundly a few weeks ago!

I'm curious - it's likely to have been many many moons ago, but who is historically considered a great sportswriter?

Grantland Rice, I think, is recognized as one of the greatest sportswriters of all time, although I'm not that familiar with his work. But I know there's a "Grantland Rice Suite" at the Columbia Journalism School and Charles Fountain at Northeastern has written a literary biography about him.

My all-time favorite is Ring Lardner. He has a book called "You Know Me Al" that is one of my all-time favorite books, period, written in the persona of a hayseed baseball player who makes it big.

Peter Gammons is still really good, although you have to pay to read him now on espn.com (Of course you had to pay to read him in the Globe too, back in the day, unless your folks bought the paper or you went to the library). Shaughnessy used to be good about 20 years ago, and Bob Ryan used to be a great basketball writer. I used to love reading Ray Fitzgerald in the Globe back when I was a teenager too.

The tenure point is a good one. I have noticed that tendency with columnists in general - they rarely disappear and rarely improve over time.

Thanks for the other writers to check out, psp - I certainly will do that. Ring Lardner does sound familiar.

I don't know about Halberstam's reputation, but thinking more about sportswriting, The Teammates was a really lovely book.

Hi everyone. I've been a daily visitor here for a bit more than a year now. I'm a longtime resident of Montana, but spent my first 18 years in Newton, and another 8 years back in the Hub from 86-94. Lifelong soxfan. I WAS Yaz in 1967. Anyway... "who is historically considered a great sportswriter?" I am presently reading a mind blowing collection of sportswriters. I highly recommend it to everyone. You will not be disappointed. It's called "The Best American Sportswritng of the Century," and is edited by Halberstam. Here's a link to Amazon's page:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0395945143/qid=1129227513/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-8994333-5392636?v=glance&s=books

I realize I wasn't hilarious today. Maybe next time. It's really a pleasure to check in here each day. Thanks to hb and you all.

//None of the current Yankee posters here even begin to approach He Who Shall Not Be Named's level of rudeness.//

I agree. At least Jason O., and Billy, and Bernie raise valid (if obviously biased) baseball points. BigLie was more of the stereotypical Skankee fan; yell and scream and drown everyone else out, and then run off to mommy's basement when he wasn't praised as a baseball genius. I welcome opposing views. It's the ones constructed of feces, volume, and basement mold that I can't stand.

psp, those damn Romans...That was why they conquered so much territory, they used novel tactics to turn tribes against one another in spain, gaul, britain, africa, etc, and then they were very lenient in their governing methods compared to other ancient empires...You'll also be happy to know that your ancestors were complete badasses, 100 years after Viriato, Caesar recruited the 10th legion from that area, which was the Roman army's elite unit for 100 years.

Halberstam's reputation is pretty good, birth, he won a Pulitzer as a reporter and also wrote a book that has become the source of conventional wisdom about Vietnam. I think the guy's a big sox fan.

Ever read Furman Bisher's sportswriting? He writes for the Atlanta J-C, and he's the Vin Scully of sportswriters.

Glenn Stout, co-author of Red Sox Century and Yankee Century, edits an annual volume called The Best American Sports Writing. And indeed, Jason, David Halberstam is best-known for "The Best and the Brightest" about Vietnam. For my money, the best book about Vietnam was "A Bright, Shining Lie" by Neil Sheehan, who is the "teammate" to whom Halberstam dedicates "The Teammates" ...

Re: Schilling's comments.

Good thing he was never a indie-rock band member or a record company employee, he would have exploded about the amount of mooching by self-appointed "music journalists" who do crummy fanzines in an effort to get free CDs, free tickets or guest-list status for concerts, backstage passes, etc. And when these "journalists" finally DO their publications (in the loosest sense of the word), the result is trees wasted or boring interviews, mediocre reviews or glowing reviews of their friends' bands, etc. It was pretty prolific during the 80's hardcore-punk era... ironically enough, the Internet killed off a lot of the more nationally-syndicated, better written punk/indie zines (Flipside being one example that comes to mind). Maximum Rock and Roll somehow still hangs in their (probably because of the name).

Then again, I haven't read many indie-rock zines in a while; most of the bands I haven't heard of or they just rehash the same old stuff - or I could just look up the bands' websites or Google them (you see how everything seems to circle around to online access?).

Or then you have people like Jim Goad, the GG Allin of fanzine writing...

Y'all are awesome - thanks for a robust winter reading list. After all, I can't very well go back and read Faithful again!

"the best book about Vietnam was "A Bright, Shining Lie" by Neil Sheehan, who is the "teammate" to whom Halberstam dedicates "The Teammates" ..."

I need to read that book. My pop was friends with Sheehan in the Army.

I didn't realize Flipside is gone. I don't try to keep my ear to the ground the way I used to, but it seems like the biggest cred for indie reviews goes to Pitchfork these days, deserved or not.

My kudos as well, h.b., for the recent article. You deserve all the good press.

I didn't realize Flipside is gone. I don't try to keep my ear to the ground the way I used to, but it seems like the biggest cred for indie reviews goes to Pitchfork these days, deserved or not.

For all Pitchfork's crankiness and hipper-than-thou smugness on some reviews, they do a damn good job of keeping me updated on indie-rock's goings-on. They also delve into the hip-hop/rap scene too which leaves me cold (Maybe it's my age but I will never understand hip-hop or rap. Robert Pollard from Guided by Voices said it best when he explained why he didn't like rap - there's no melody, it's just yelling/talking).

If anyone is interested in the history of Flipside fanzine (one of the first L.A. punk zines), here's their well-researched memorial website: http://flipsidefanzine.com/

Didn't have much to comment on but I had to try throwing a close bracket for the bold into the top of my comment to fix the one that someone accidently left open. The bolding was driving me mad.

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